The landscape architecture of the BBC Plaza in Portland Place


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/02/rein-top-pay-mps-poor-furious Simon Jenkins

Most of us puzzle about how the BBC spends its money but a former editor of The Times (Simon Jenkins) explains the process in easy terms: You are sitting with some friends round a table on which is stashed £60m. It comes from a poll tax on television sets, free of Treasury control, and you can do with it what you like. You can use it for better television programmes, give it to low-paid staff or even return it to the taxpayer. No one will know, except a bunch of toothless trustees. So you smile nervously at one another, reach forward and pocket as much loot as you can grab. With this guidance we can imagine how the BBC Plaza on Portland Place came to take its shape:
BBC Boss Will the planners buy MJP’s design for the building?
Majordomo Yeah. MJP say we shouldn’t have any problems. The design is a re-conceptualised post-transmogrification of the 1928 Val Myer and McGrath design. It plays on the neo-classicism of Nash’s All Soul’s Church and the Art Deco of Broadcasting House.
BBC Boss OK. How about the plaza then?
Majordomo We could have a great landscape design. But it would cost money.
BBC Boss Yeah. Let’s slab it. Then use lettering to advertise all the lucky countries we broadcast to.
Majordomo Yessir. It’ll cost some brass farthings but won’t dent our pension pot.

Luckily, it is not too late to add an installation: a cloud canopy of glass sheets to make an outdoor-indoor space for people and plants. Image inspiration 1 Image inspiration 2

43 thoughts on “The landscape architecture of the BBC Plaza in Portland Place

  1. Christine

    Yes, what were they thinking re: the architecture and the landscape architecture?

    It is always a shame when you feel that it is necessary to advocate for more landscape to cover up the architecture! Rather than more landscape to complement the architecture. (sigh!)

    Reply
    1. Tom Turner Post author

      I don’t think of landscape design as covering up architecture. At a conceptual level I see a real difference between conceiving a building as an ‘object’ and conceiving a building as one of the elements which defines ‘open space’ (along with landform, vegetation, water and ‘sky’) and I think it is difficult for one mind to FOCUS on both simultaneously. So I think it is necessary for architects and landscape architects to work together at a conceptual level. Few good things result from formulating an ‘object-oriented’ concept and then asking someone else to help with the paving and planting. Also, when thinking about external space, it is best to think in broad terms about ‘all the ologies’ which study the forces which create landscapes: geology, hydrology, ecology, sociology etc. Architects have so many difficult issues to wrestle with that they have little time for the ologies. (sigh!)

      Reply
  2. jerry

    i am very glad that you put some energy on public open space research. this is a post which i may not understand well. you would like them to change this design? but in fact, i think they may not want this space to be busy and popular, because it is a working space and it is in a very political streets which is full of international embassies. i have been there and feel it is Ok. but they do need to put more seats in it or around it.

    Reply
    1. Tom Turner Post author

      Yes, I would like them to change the design of the BBC Plaza in order to give it use and beauty. I do not think this would hinder its role as an entrance ‘hall’ to the building. Apart from saving money, I think the designers wanted a clear open space which made it easy to take photographs of their building. Wiki explains that the original designer, Richard MacCormac, honourably resigned from the project because the design was cut back to save money. I don’t know if the cost-cutting affected the design of the plaza.
      The Telegraph reports that ‘BBC Director General Tony Hall earns £450,000-a-year and it is believed that more than 130 of the 360 BBC bosses earn more than £142,500 or more – topping David Cameron’s pay-packet.’ It also has 19 presenters earning over £500,000 – with some of them making fun of MPs for voting to raise their salaries above £65,738. I would like to see (1) BBC salaries expressed as ‘PMs’ eg ‘Tony Hall is paid 3.1 PMs’ and ‘Jeremy Paxman is rumoured to earn 12 PMs’ (2) a surcharge on BBC salaries to pay for a decent landscape design for the BBC Plaza. They imposed a surcharge on risk-taking bankers – so why not on risk-avoiding BBC salarymen?

      Reply
  3. Christine

    Hmmm. Ok. I am firstly wondering if any of the original interior design by Raymond Mcgrath survives? Then my comments on the architecture would be – the design of the Peel wing is a pastiche of a facade – echoing historic styles in a way that is both thin and unconvincing. For this reason it detracts from the streetscape rather than contributes to it.

    The night time facade of the plaza is good – but this is only because it is not possible to see its juxtaposition with the historic facade. It makes me wonder if the designer or contractor wished they had a greenfield opportunity? So the new does not integrate with or respect the heritage of the original art deco building very well or its urban setting.

    From all respects it would seem that landscape architecture was not thought about at all?

    Unless there is a requirement to comment on the paving design and the thin link running to the entrance of the building? This suggests that there has been an attempt with the paving to overcome the deficiency that the entrance to the building is not sufficiently legible.

    Reply
    1. Tom Turner Post author

      You are right, right, right and right. When they adopt the Gardenvisit advice to set up a City Fathers and Mothers Committee to give advice on London planning I will email Boris a reminder to invite you to become a member – with the extra advice that sourcing some Raymond McGrath furniture for your Central London apartment could be an effective inducement. Would you like an apartment overlooking the Thames or one of the Royal Parks?

      Reply
  4. Christine

    [ http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NR6F1cTWL.jpg ] and [ http://www.vam.ac.uk/users/sites/default/files/riba21235_wallpaper_design_mcgrath_blue.jpg ]. Thank you. Would it be possible for me to do the interior design on the apartment with the sourced Raymond Mcgrath furniture?

    [ http://www.modernistbritain.co.uk/ ] I am happy to live in an apartment overlooking either the Thames or one of the Royal Parks. The apartment could be modern, art deco or post post modern and depending on the choice, with the Raymond Mcgrath furniture inspiring the interior design and being adapted to reflect and complement its architectural setting.

    Of course the outlook would be the star!

    Reply
    1. Tom Turner Post author

      There should not be a problem with the Mcgrath furniture, especially if some money can be saved by you doing the interior design, but I am a little worried that in London’s current penny-pinching mood the city may not run to a top floor suite in the Royal Horseguards Hotel. The eclecticism of the exterior design might also trouble you BUT I think they have suites with views of both the river and St James’s Park – and they to do great porrige and kipper breakfasts. The royal connections would have cachet this year – though Kate sent a note to say she did not want to get miserable in Kensington Palace, as happened to Di, so she will live with her own mum in Bucklebury when William is away from London. Maybe Kate has the right attitude. If so we could consider buying this (empty) cinema and having it converted for you. The Well Hall estate, just visible, has some great Arts and Crafts houses which could be used for your domestics. We are expecting David Cameron to bring back domestic service to lower the unemployment figures.

      Reply
  5. Christine

    Yes, that would be lovely. Thank you.[ http://www.google.com.au/search?q=royal+houseguards+hotel&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&biw=980&bih=881&bvm=pv.xjs.s.en_US.jOYpRJj4zMA.O&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=b5L4UfSjJM7HkQX7_ICIBA ]

    Does it matter if I am allergic to fish and would prefer not to eat the kippers?

    Wow, the cinema would be one incredible renovation and conversion challenge!

    I am not keen on the idea of domestics being a thoroughly modern girl in that regard. Nannying for young travellers is about as far as I am able to contemplate domestic service as a solution to unemployment. (And then there should be extensive benefits like free foreign language lessons, a car, a cottage and exotic holidays with the family). All very beneficial for a young person considering a gap year experience before going to uni or starting work in earnest.

    The area certainly has considerable Tudor connections and perhaps has benefited from the parks planning of Henry VIII?

    Reply
    1. Tom Turner Post author

      Providing it would not cause any confusion with ‘the full Monty‘ you could certainly have a ‘full English‘ breakfast, instead of kippers, but you might have to go in statins if you got to like it.
      No problems at all learning languages in London. At least 150 languags are spoken. If you choose the right area to live you may find that the language of your choice is used in shops and that an working knowledge of English would not be sufficient. Here is a useful map.
      Re swimming, my own belief is that because of the salt water the River Thames is ‘safe enough’ and, because of the heat pollution, is surprisingly warm. So there is a great opportunity to start a new fashion in riverside bathing. There is a good sandy beach in Central London and its use for this purpose is promoted by this website.

      Reply
  6. Christine

    Yes. It would be good to have an opinion from Thames Water on the state of the services and infrastructure for the cinema before starting renovations.

    The cinema building could either be converted to an apartment with a home theatre and a roof garden or perhaps could be readapted to a reception centre, art house cinema (it could show first releases, foreign language films, student cinema and visual anthropology docos) and art gallery for Greenwich University. The cinema could also have a dual use as a lecturer theatre.

    It would be useful to know more about the neighbourhood and potential views.

    Reply
    1. Tom Turner Post author

      Not much chance of running a cinema I’m afraid. Several firms have tried and failed. The site has good road links but is set in a suburban residential area and lacks a rail station, a car park and local restaurants. Also, it is only a few miles from the 02 Dome which is booming as an entertainment hub because it has everything which Eltham lacks. That is why I think a residential future lies ahead for the cinema. There would be great views from its large flat roof so I think a rooftop apartment would do very well. But would need to think of a good use for the heart of the building because, as apartments, they would lack daylight. Perhaps it could be a data centre. That would create enough spare heat for a swiming pool on the roof!

      Reply
  7. Christine

    I am thinking that Greenwich University could run a lecture theatre – that just happened to be able to show films in a cinema quality environment. This would also allow all lecturers to have superior audiovisual facilities too! So it need not be a commercial operation: but there is no reason why it might not be a university facility on weekdays and a commercial operation on weekends. [ http://www.schonell.com/ ]

    Yes to a roof garden and pool on the roof.

    Maybe there is a way to encourage cycling to the cinema? Perhaps it could have synergies with the larger 02 Dome? A restaurant and/or cafe could be included as part of the renovations. Maybe even with a pool bar and tapas on the roof?

    Can you tell me more about the surrounding potential for carparks and public transport options?

    Reply
    1. Tom Turner Post author

      The problem is that the cinema is 4.3 miles from the UoG Maritime Campus and the students are not yet so keen on cycling that they would welcome such a trip between lectures. That is what makes me wonder about uses which could do with daylight only from the perimieter. Similar problems delayed a decision about the after use of Battersea Power Station. Finding space for car parking would be difficult but there is a rail station about half a mile from the cinema. I guess its destiny is demolition and replacement by a six-storey apartment block. The last 5 years are supposed to have had a big recession for the UK construction industry but the rebuilding of London has never been faster. The city is being converted from terrace houses with gardens to apartment blocks with no roof gardens and a little perfunctory grass at street level. Sad.

      Reply
  8. Christine

    Is it the case that Shooters Hill is one of the highest points in London? Do you have a map for the cinema? You are probably right that the students would not welcome cycling uphill such a distance.

    Is the cinema at all usually located to the Avery Hill Campus?

    It seems that all options should be investigated first before the demolition option. Often the best designs arise from the most seemingly insoluable problems!

    Yes, please to more than perfunctory grass and apartments with no greenspaces…

    Reply
    1. Tom Turner Post author

      Yes re the height of Shooters Hill. The cinema is about 2.3 miles from the Avery Hill Campus. I very much agree about architects and ‘problems’: I think one is much nore likely to get a good design for a ‘difficult’ site than for an ‘easy’ site. Google’s satellite image (found by a search for Well Hall Roundabout, London) shows the surroundings – and I was surprised to find that the building appears to have a pitched roof.
      Re London, I think the overall plan should be to create a NEW LANDSCAPE at rooftop level. Street level is bound to get more congested in central areas as the overall population continues to rise and London’s climate is particularly well suited to sky-gardens and sky-parks. There is enough water to keep them green and (1) Londoner’s usually want more sunshine (2) when the the city is too hot a little shading or exposure to roof-level wind is usually enough to provide a high level of outdoor comfort (3) there is less air pollution at higher levels.

      Reply
  9. Christine

    The mansion of the Courtauld’s is very much inspiring me with the possibilities for the cinema’s adaptive reuse.[ http://www.film-locations.co.uk/catalog.php?item=13 ] Are they of the Courtauld Gallery fame?

    Is this the cinema in question? [ http://www.elthamse9.co.uk/newsfolder.php?id=11347 ] and [ http://www.flickr.com/photos/liamch/sets/72157621979219975/detail/ ]

    It seems that if it is located between the two Greenwich university campuses, and this is a more affordable area in the borough, it would be a perfect complement to student housing in the area. The university could also develop and operate the housing on a commerical basis.

    [ http://www.kidbrookekite.co.uk/2010/10/plans-for-coronet-cinema-eltham.html ] It would not be a good idea to develop it in the way proposed here. But rather to think on a location wide scale rather than purely on a site scale, and maintain the integrity of the building fabric and curtilage as much as possible. Or has this proposal already happened?

    Reply
    1. Tom Turner Post author

      No connection with Eltham Palace, which belonged to the Courtauld Family (which also established the Courtauld Institute). But yes, it was the Coronet Cinema and is set to become a gym. There could be a luxury flat and roof garden on top. Might it reek of perspiration? I did not know that the university had considered using a restored cinema but the plan seems to have been abandonned. My own proposal for the UoG is that it should become a special type of university which (1) concentrates on professional courses, because of its location beside a major service city which is too expensive for most undergraduates (2) concentrates on part-time and online teaching (3) probably gives up undergraduate teaching. I put this suggestion to our previous Vice Chancellor (Baroness Tessa Blackstone) who replied that the univesity should try to do ‘everything’ and not concentrate on anything. If my plan were adopted they Avery Hill campus would have become surplus to requirements. At present the university has a strange mixture of local students from poor areas and wealthy students from overseas.

      Reply
  10. Christine

    Eltham Palace could set the standard for the art deco renovation of the Coronet Cinema. It would have been amazing to the Courtauld Family become sponsors of the UoG Art Gallery in the Reception Centre, much in the same way as the Guggenheim’s. It could be for new and/or emerging British Art.

    Such a shame that London has stopped valuing its heritage. It is true that architects used to complain about the lack of new build opportunities. But I am sure that there are plenty of both types new build and heritage restoration/renovation if the city is considered and assessed for its potential in the right way.

    Was the UoG always a university or did it come from another tradition of technical learning? Are there undergraduate and postgraduate universities in the UK currently? Is the distinction between teaching and research universities made in the UK?

    Is there a difference between the students and courses at Avery Hill and the students and courses at Greenwich. Is the Greenwich campus accessible by ferry from the Thames?

    What is the current UK higher education policy? Does the UK view education as an export industry now? How does it view the promotion of learning within its own population or is education a purely vocational pursuit?

    Reply
    1. Tom Turner Post author

      Yes, the lifetimes of Art Deco and Art Nouveau were all-too-short, and I guess it was Abstract Modernism which killed them offf. The history books tend to treat Art Deco as Proto-Modernism. Sponsorship of British art has shifted from the Courtaulds to Charles Saatchi and I do not think Art Deco is to his taste. I do not hink it is correct that London has stopped valuing its heritage but, one way or another, the architectural profession remains wedded to Modernism. Is this right?
      The UoG began life in 1890 as Woolwich Polytechnic. Some UK universities put more emphasis on research than others but almost all the universities are now multi-purpose (UG, PG, Research, Art, Science etc). I think this is a big mistake and would like to have specialised universities – is this the case in Australia?
      Architecure and Construction have been at Avery Hill for reasons of convenience for a decade but in 2014 will move to a new building on the Maritime Campus and will be very near a ferry pier.
      UK universities do have a substantial ‘export role’ but seem to have organised this for themselves rather than it being a deliberate government policy.

      Reply
  11. Christine

    There is some continuity between Art Deco, Art Nouveau and Abstract Modernism – so perhaps it was more a case of an evolution in thinking rather than a revolution. The major difference perhaps between Art Nouveau and Art Deco/Abstract Modernism was the attitude towards the machine Age. Art Nouveau was a reaction against industrialisation whereas Art Deco and Abstract Modernism embraced it.

    There is possibly room for may sponsors of British Art.

    Universities do not tend to specialise in Australia, other than to say in recent times there has been an emergence of Liberal Arts universities as well as policy towards encouraging centres of research and teaching excellence. There is still something of a distinction between intellectual training and vocational training (including professional vocational training) but it is not a hard line.

    The ability to attract students on intellectual ability or talent has always impressed me as what makes a university great. Of course the ability to offer a quality education beyond borders and exchange or overseas learning experiences is valuable too.

    Reply
    1. Tom Turner Post author

      I suspect historians of over-emphasising the influence of the renaissance and the enlightenment at the expense of that of the middle ages – possibly because they have more information on the later periods. During the middle ages there was a clear split between theory (the monasteries – which became our universities) and practice (which took place in farms and workshops). But, because of their theoretical knowledge the monks became better at industry and at farming than the practical men. So, eventually, people with theoretical knowledge took over the leadership of practical trades and, in my not-well-informed view, the universities probably concentrate too much on theory. I have no doubts about the importance of theory, in design and everywhere, but I also think people need practical knowledge and skills of the highest quality. An example of the problems which resulted from this is that surgeons used to have only theoretical skills. There was no test of dexterity before, during or after their education. My dad, who was ‘all thumbs’ and luckily knew it and did not practice, was a fully qualified surgeon. Another example, which probably persists, is the famous inability of architects to design a flat roof which does not leak (ie without the help of other technical specialists).

      Reply
  12. Christine

    Yes. Modern architects are famous for taking their phone off the hook when it rained! The best way of accounting for this is to say that this was the price of innovation – and not too far from the tradition of testing the success of your dome by whether it collapsed or not.

    Fortunately, now, more often than not, behind every good architect is a good engineer!

    Do you think your dad would have been happier with today’s robotic technology or would his all thumbs problem have persisted? He seems to have been rather keen to have acquired all those painstaking years of specialisation and to not have performed surgeries? Did he teach or research instead?

    The roof on our Art Deco cinema seems to be behind a parapet. So I am guessing that visually from the street, the building gives the appearance of a flat roof. It may have been that the technical skills to execute one didn’t exist at the time. I am sure a good engineer could assist here.

    Reply
    1. Tom Turner Post author

      I love the phrase ‘taking their phone off the hook’! What I can’t understand is why they had problems with flat roofs.
      My dad did surgery as an extra qualification, much as an architect might do an MBA, rather than ever intending to work as a surgeon (he was a cardiologist). But he also did a great deal of surgery during the war and I think it left a scar on his psyche.
      It may be that the cinema walls would need stiffening to carry the load of full-depth substrate but I think you would be fine with a timber deck, a meadow and a pool (if the pool had extra support). We could also argue that loading issues made the roof unsuitable for use by users of the gym. There could be too many of them; their weights could be excessice; their insurers might not like it. But I think a penthouse + garden would be fine. Would you make any use of the gym? I look at gyms in amazement: why spend all that money to be indoors when they could be exersising in a park?

      Reply
  13. Christine

    You are probably right about the effects of war on your dad being a mitigating factor.

    Hmmm. Yes, depending on the design of the renovation and an investigation of the existing structure and its capacity – the margin of structural safety prior to 1960 was often high – the decision on the roof could be made in an iterative way. There are many ways of gaining views, greenspaces and outdoor spaces.

    I am not a regular user of gyms. It does seem like an interesting thing to do on holidays – particularly beach ones. (ie. go to gym, have breakfast, spend the morning on the beach, walking or shopping, have lunch, relax some more on the beach, go for a swim, go back to your apartment to prepare for dinner…) Or perhaps when the weather is more forbidding of outdoor activities.

    Gyms are also not a bad idea to ensure activity by otherwise tired and overworked executives who need the convenience of an exercise regime that can be easily fitted into a working day prior to the onset of mental rather than physical exhaustion!

    I am very keen to look at the existing plans of the cinema?

    Reply
    1. Tom Turner Post author

      I passed the Coronet Cinema yesterday: they have kept the walls and removed the roof and are building, presumably, the gym. Full details of the planning application are here http://publicaccess.royalgreenwich.gov.uk:81/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=_GRNW_DCAPR_73698
      That sounds like a good holiday programme – but why not swim to get the exercise?
      With any luck those under-exercised executives will soon be cycling to work. There seem to be almost as many cycle stores as coffee shops in some London streets (particuclarly on the fringes of the City) Cycling rates are said to have doubled since 2000 – the fastest rate of increase in Europe. This has been great for the Brompton Bicycle Company.

      Reply
  14. Christine

    Because in the holiday programme outlined – exercise was a leisure activity! Pools are good for swimming for exercise, beaches less so, unless you are a marathon swimmer.

    Yes. It might help to have the executives cycling to work, but they may also then be too mentally fatigued to cycle home safely (particularly in the dangerous conditions shown on your latest blog)?

    The development of this building does seem to have proceeded with an eye to merely filling the site with something vaguely commerically viable rather than giving any serious consideration to heritage and the economic and social values and potential of the area. Or for that matter streetscape or urban considerations.

    So I am wondering how long the gym will remain a viable business in this location?
    [ http://www.elthamse9.co.uk/newsfolder.php?id=11347 ] Is the gym business operating under leasehold arrangements?

    Reply
    1. Tom Turner Post author

      I think that the exercise would ease their mental fatigue and make them better at whatever it is they execute (I read recently that about 70% of their time is spent meandering about the web and taking executive decisions about what to post on Facebook).
      Gyms have a weird business model. The aim is to garner as many subscriptions as possible and keep them paying. But providing they do this the aim is to discourage them from using the facilities. This makes them like bill boards. Passers-by are meant to think ‘wow, I could be a young/fit/happy/healthy person if I gave them money’. So visibility and a prestige location are vital. The Coronet has this and may therefore flourish – but I am confident there is room for your penthouse roof garden and because it would be so near you could REALLY be a long-term young/fit/happy/healthy person.

      Reply
  15. Christine

    This is the best representation of the development I am able to access.[ http://www.kingsbury-consultants.co.uk/images/brochures/Phase%202A%20The%20Coronet%20SE9%20-%20Summary.pdf ]

    The link to the planning application is not currently available. [ http://www.newlondonarchitecture.org/project.php?id=1028&name=the_coronet_cinema ]

    I am not sure ‘imaginative and sensitive’ are the right evaluative terms for the development.

    A BBC program recently had a heritage consultant say something like “a good heritage use is one which fits with the fabric of the building rather than the fabric of building being made to fit the use.”

    It would seem in this instance the building has been made to fit with the new use. So ‘sensitive’ is not seem to be an appropriate description. Because they were unable to imagine a suitable use of the building and the new bits are pretty ordinary I am not sure that the claim to the description ‘imaginative’ is valid either.

    Reply
    1. Tom Turner Post author

      If the ‘town planning’ profession deserved to survive as an urban design profession it should have secured an excellent green roof for the Coronet re-development (I do not know what has been done but the best we can hope for is sedum). Interesting that they refer to a ‘communal garden’. London has some good examples of these on recent developments but far too many of them are useless expanses of grass – it is always best to assume the worst. From what can be seen, I agree that ‘sensitive’ and ‘imaginative’ are inappropriate adjectives.

      Reply
  16. Christine

    Gosh, the other 30% must be extremely busy! Perhaps they are the mentally exhausted ones?

    True, a young, fit, happy and healthy person is the best advertisement for going to gym! I am not sure you would believe in its benefits otherwise!

    My friend once became a gym junky and got perpetual colds from going to the gym twice a day. It seemed she was over stressing her immune system. So perhaps a little bit of discouragement from gym attendance is necessary to find the balance between being long-term young/fit/happy and healthy and an adrenalin addiction?

    I am not sure how gym’s factor this into their business model (ie.promoting responsible exercise)?

    Reply
    1. Tom Turner Post author

      Gyms do not look like good places to me and your friend’s experience led me to ‘see what the web thinks’. The Daily Mail reports that ‘Microbiologists have discovered that dangerous bacteria lurk not only in the unpleasant sweaty residue left on gym equipment, but in hot-tubs, changing rooms and even sports drinks bottles. Some of the bugs can thrive for days in the humid gym environment, and are killed only when the area is thoroughly cleaned and disinfected’. Fungal infections (eg the well-named Athlete’s Foot) are also a problem. I would like to see comparative figures for expenditure on gyms and on public parks.

      Reply
  17. Christine

    Yes, the communal garden may be a problem if the residents of the apartments are not partly gardeners. It would be better for the body corporate to employ a gardener as a default position, so that communal garden meant for communal use and visual amenity.

    Sedum is certainly better than no roof garden. It would be good also if there was some decking so that it could be useable by the residents for some more robust activities other than lying out and reading a book in the sun. At least the grass might provide a habitat for birds, worms and other little seen but vitally necessary insects like bees.

    Reply
    1. Tom Turner Post author

      They usually have good arrangements for ‘maintaining’ communal gardens ie they cut the grass and prune the ‘easy maintenance flowering shrubs’. What troubles me is that the land is often badly designed and appears to have no use. It might be used for childrens’ play but there are signs saying NO BALL GAMES and parents do not seem to regard it as any safer than playing in the street.

      Reply
  18. Christine

    I am thinking that my friend’s problem was from her own immune system being suppressed rather than from bugs in the gym environment. In Australia people are encouraged to carry towels to deal with perspiration, there are not many gyms with hot tubs and people use their own drink bottles. I am not sure what the practices are in terms of cleaning gym equipment. Flipflops or thongs in showers and changerooms are good for avoiding athlete’s foot.

    Do you think gyms are public parks are competition. My thoughts are rather that they are complementary?

    Yes. Of course the communal gardens may be badly designed: it probably depends on whether they have had a landscape architect involved and on the brief they have been given. Do you think that type of accommodation is suitable for children?

    Reply
    1. Tom Turner Post author

      I agree that gyms and parks have different roles. But I also think gyms benefit from the fact that individual consumer decisions can increase expenditure on them, because they are not private goods. By definition, this is not possible with ‘public’ parks and this makes it difficult to know what resources society would like to devote to them.
      The normal arrangement in East Asia is for apartments to have access to a communal garden to which the public does not have access (like this). This makes the gardens safe for children and the arrangement seems to work well. We have some examples of this in London, where it also seems to work well, but it is not common. Is this arrangement common in Australia?

      Reply
  19. Christine

    Yes, particularly on the Gold Coast [ http://www.maldivesresort.com.au/main-beach-accommodation/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Main-Beach-accom8.jpg ] where this arrangement is considered to be resort style accommodation. It is predominantly for the holiday market, but is also typical of the residential market.

    It perhaps not the best arrangement for children. The possibility of unstructured play within a traditional backyard seems to be best. [ http://images-2.domain.com.au/2010/08/21/1831776/backyard_200-200×0.jpg ] and [ http://www.aussievault.com.au/media/vaults/121/entries/images/1516/7841/image-966-644.jpg ]

    If there are safe opportunities to roam beyond the backyard – reports of happy carefree childhoods seem to be more prevailent. [ http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8313/7984898795_f30a914493_z.jpg ] and [ http://www.internationalcrickethall.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Main-cricketartprize2011.jpg ] and [ http://www.juniorlandcare.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/jl_yates_096.jpg ].

    Reply
    1. Tom Turner Post author

      I think ‘resort’ lifestyle is a good description. It is like living in a hotel with a protected garden – or a condominium.
      Re childrens’ play, they need lots of alternatives. A private garden can let them grow up as young rebels but it can also be an over-protected place dominated by parental control. A communal garden is a good combination of safety and community. A street, or public greenspace, is a good preparation for the dangers of the outside world.

      Reply
  20. Christine

    How about a private garden and a community garden?

    My carefree childhood was spent in the planned city of Canberra with a backyard, a front yard and a circular park with mushrooms and native trees across the street! We always walked through the park to go to the local shops to buy the bread and milk for mum.

    Reply
    1. Tom Turner Post author

      My childhood, in Edinburgh, was almost as fortunate: a terrace with no front garden but a park on the other side of the street; a walled back garden (not large) and a natural river bank at the bottom of the garden. But my dad bought it for a price equal to about one year’s salary and, still measured in doctor’s salaries, the prices in the street are now about 8 years salary. Many of our neighbours were teachers and writers – and I doubt if many members of these professions still live there. When I was last there I noticed that there are no footpaths on the bank of the river. It used to be a prime play area. Now, I guess, parents regard it as dangerous.

      Reply
  21. Christine

    Yes. It is true children like the play spaces in which they feel free and can be as imaginative as possible. Our backgarden was planted with many fruit trees particularly apricots, walnuts, plum trees, apple trees and a lemon tree. The driveway on the side of the house had cherry trees.

    This bounty had advantages and disadvantages. The advantages were of course being able to eat the fruit while the disadvantages was that picking up the rotting fruit from the ground was a good source of parental punishment.

    I am sure with a bit of imagination it would be possible to design dwellings in which children had similar opportunities to experience gardens and nature in a safe way.

    It would be good to think about the requirements first, and the factor of affordability second because sometimes putting the cart before the horse means that the horse gets left in the paddock and some poor person ends up pulling the cart!

    Reply
    1. Tom Turner Post author

      It sounds like paradise! But did the apparent low density of the neighbourhood make you dependent on parental car transport to make contact with friends, go to the cinema, visit shops, get to school etc? I remain an admirer of the 1965 book Community and Privacy: Toward a New Architecture of Humanism by Serge Chermayeff and Christopher Alexander. Children, like other humans, need both private space in which they can be themselves and communal space in which they can be part of a community.

      Reply
  22. christine

    No, we were not particularly car dependent, except for going to the ‘drive-in’.

    We made friends with the children next door and in the neighborhood, walked to the local shops and walked to school sometimes.

    This is what made it is some ways an ideal arrangement. But perhaps it may have been too suburban for my mother who didn’t drive. The needs of adults are different to the needs of children.

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