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	<title>
	Comments on: The classical gardening ideal of George London, Henry Wise and Virgil&#039;s Georgics	</title>
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	<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/the-classical-gardening-ideal-of-george-london-henry-wise-and-virgils-georgics/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 24 Nov 2010 08:18:44 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Turner		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/the-classical-gardening-ideal-of-george-london-henry-wise-and-virgils-georgics/#comment-3027</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Turner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Nov 2010 08:18:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=5950#comment-3027</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There are some appealing examples of good garden design on the video and the Americans have certainly not been laggard in this field. Dan Kiley was an outstanding designer. His book has the title The Complete Works of America&#039;s Master Landscape Architect - but many of his projects,like the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gardenvisit.com/garden/miller_house_garden&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Miller House&lt;/a&gt;, are better categorised as Garden Design.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are some appealing examples of good garden design on the video and the Americans have certainly not been laggard in this field. Dan Kiley was an outstanding designer. His book has the title The Complete Works of America&#8217;s Master Landscape Architect &#8211; but many of his projects,like the <a href="http://www.gardenvisit.com/garden/miller_house_garden" rel="nofollow">Miller House</a>, are better categorised as Garden Design.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christine		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/the-classical-gardening-ideal-of-george-london-henry-wise-and-virgils-georgics/#comment-3026</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Nov 2010 03:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=5950#comment-3026</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Perhaps you might select one of these residential designs to illustrate &#039;Good Garden Design&#039; to your US Republican so that he understands your comment is not aimed at Americans?
[ http://vimeo.com/15164976 ]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps you might select one of these residential designs to illustrate &#8216;Good Garden Design&#8217; to your US Republican so that he understands your comment is not aimed at Americans?<br />
[ <a href="http://vimeo.com/15164976" rel="nofollow ugc">http://vimeo.com/15164976</a> ]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christine		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/the-classical-gardening-ideal-of-george-london-henry-wise-and-virgils-georgics/#comment-3025</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Nov 2010 02:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=5950#comment-3025</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Why do I insist on the distinction between the right and wrong place and a good and bad design?
Because over time the context (qualities of place) will inevitably change while the design will usually (but of course not always) maintains a fundamental internal integrity.
[ http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Arts/Parthenon.htm ] What makes the Parthenon brilliant throughout history?

Although response to context is inherent in a good design solution in the sense that you point out - genius of place - context itself is exceedingly important.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do I insist on the distinction between the right and wrong place and a good and bad design?<br />
Because over time the context (qualities of place) will inevitably change while the design will usually (but of course not always) maintains a fundamental internal integrity.<br />
[ <a href="http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Arts/Parthenon.htm" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Arts/Parthenon.htm</a> ] What makes the Parthenon brilliant throughout history?</p>
<p>Although response to context is inherent in a good design solution in the sense that you point out &#8211; genius of place &#8211; context itself is exceedingly important.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Turner		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/the-classical-gardening-ideal-of-george-london-henry-wise-and-virgils-georgics/#comment-3024</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Turner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2010 08:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=5950#comment-3024</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I posted a comment on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2010/04/28/bad-garden-design-america/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bad Garden Design&lt;/a&gt; in April - which recently attracted a response from a US Republican - who takes me for a probable imperialist with bad teeth.
Good gardens should have the Vitruvian virtues, and obey the &lt;a href=&quot;/history_theory/garden_landscape_design_articles/design_methods/existing_site_concept_drawings&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Single Agreed Law&lt;/a&gt; of landscape and garden design: &#039;consult the Genius of the Place&#039;. So badly designed gardens (1) lack the Vitruvian virtues (2) ignore the genius of the place. As Leo Tolstoy might have said, if switching his attention from families to gardens: &#039;Happy gardens are all alike; every unhappy garden is unhappy in its own way&#039;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted a comment on <a href="http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2010/04/28/bad-garden-design-america/" rel="nofollow">Bad Garden Design</a> in April &#8211; which recently attracted a response from a US Republican &#8211; who takes me for a probable imperialist with bad teeth.<br />
Good gardens should have the Vitruvian virtues, and obey the <a href="/history_theory/garden_landscape_design_articles/design_methods/existing_site_concept_drawings" rel="nofollow">Single Agreed Law</a> of landscape and garden design: &#8216;consult the Genius of the Place&#8217;. So badly designed gardens (1) lack the Vitruvian virtues (2) ignore the genius of the place. As Leo Tolstoy might have said, if switching his attention from families to gardens: &#8216;Happy gardens are all alike; every unhappy garden is unhappy in its own way&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christine		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/the-classical-gardening-ideal-of-george-london-henry-wise-and-virgils-georgics/#comment-3023</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2010 01:19:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=5950#comment-3023</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Everything has its place in the &#039;orbis terrarum&#039; of landscape: native vegetation, flower gardens, vegetables gardens, water gardens, ornamental gardens and lawn.

Relating this back to context sensitive design if the definition of a weed is &#039;the wrong plant in the wrong place&#039; perhaps Tom could suggest a definition for &#039;the wrong garden in the wrong place&#039;?

The perhaps it might be possible to discuss what makes a garden right or wrong for its context, rather than a good or bad example of that type of garden.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everything has its place in the &#8216;orbis terrarum&#8217; of landscape: native vegetation, flower gardens, vegetables gardens, water gardens, ornamental gardens and lawn.</p>
<p>Relating this back to context sensitive design if the definition of a weed is &#8216;the wrong plant in the wrong place&#8217; perhaps Tom could suggest a definition for &#8216;the wrong garden in the wrong place&#8217;?</p>
<p>The perhaps it might be possible to discuss what makes a garden right or wrong for its context, rather than a good or bad example of that type of garden.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Turner		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/the-classical-gardening-ideal-of-george-london-henry-wise-and-virgils-georgics/#comment-3022</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Turner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Nov 2010 16:51:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=5950#comment-3022</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To be fair, there are many more restored vegetable gardens in Britain than there were, say, 20 years ago. But there are also far too many which have been turned into dreary flower gardens - and too many which are just grassed over. I would like to see them become well-run community vegetable gardens. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gardenvisit.com/garden/osborne_house_garden&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Osborne House&lt;/a&gt; (Queen Victoria&#039;s summer retreat on the Isle of Wight) is a kind of ornamental vegetable garden. It is quite nice but rather pointless.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be fair, there are many more restored vegetable gardens in Britain than there were, say, 20 years ago. But there are also far too many which have been turned into dreary flower gardens &#8211; and too many which are just grassed over. I would like to see them become well-run community vegetable gardens. <a href="http://www.gardenvisit.com/garden/osborne_house_garden" rel="nofollow">Osborne House</a> (Queen Victoria&#8217;s summer retreat on the Isle of Wight) is a kind of ornamental vegetable garden. It is quite nice but rather pointless.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Thomas Mickey		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/the-classical-gardening-ideal-of-george-london-henry-wise-and-virgils-georgics/#comment-3021</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Thomas Mickey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Nov 2010 13:51:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=5950#comment-3021</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The walled garden at George Washington&#039;s home, Mount Vernon, near DC, is still a kitchen garden.  It is located not too far from the house. The English garden influence is clearly there.  Still herbs and veggies.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The walled garden at George Washington&#8217;s home, Mount Vernon, near DC, is still a kitchen garden.  It is located not too far from the house. The English garden influence is clearly there.  Still herbs and veggies.</p>
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		By: Tom Turner		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/the-classical-gardening-ideal-of-george-london-henry-wise-and-virgils-georgics/#comment-3020</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Turner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Nov 2010 06:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=5950#comment-3020</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The text on the London and Wise frontispiece image comes from Virgil&#039;s &lt;em&gt;Georgic 2 &lt;/em&gt;(lines 132-133)

&lt;em&gt;regum aequabat opes animis&lt;/em&gt;, searque reuertens
nicte domum dapibus mensas onerabat inemptis
It translates as:
&lt;em&gt;He used to equal king&#039;s riches with his spirit&lt;/em&gt;, and when he returned home late at night, he used to load his table with feasts unbought.

Virgil describes the capacity of a &#039;happy husbandsman&#039; or gardener to produce rich food by hard work. It is a great motto for home gardeners who produce food &#039;by the sweat of thy brow&#039;. The  buyers of London and Wise&#039;s book may be assumed to have known the &lt;em&gt;Georgics &lt;/em&gt;from their schooldays, so that the whole quotation would not have been necessary. Most of the book is about growing food, not about garden design. They had their priorities right. But the classical allusions are also significant and, in the course of the eighteenth century, led designers to re-create scenery from the landscape of antiquity in their country estates. They also started buying food from markets - which eventually led to the demise of vegetable growing on country estates. When their distant relatives talk about &#039;restoring a walled garden&#039; on a 21st century estate what they have in mind is turning the old walled vegetable garden into something ornamental which will bring in more visitors and more money. So they still uses gardens to produce &#039;riches&#039;. The &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gardenvisit.com/garden/the_walled_garden_at_scampston&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Walled Garden at Scampston &lt;/a&gt;is a good example.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The text on the London and Wise frontispiece image comes from Virgil&#8217;s <em>Georgic 2 </em>(lines 132-133)</p>
<p><em>regum aequabat opes animis</em>, searque reuertens<br />
nicte domum dapibus mensas onerabat inemptis<br />
It translates as:<br />
<em>He used to equal king&#8217;s riches with his spirit</em>, and when he returned home late at night, he used to load his table with feasts unbought.</p>
<p>Virgil describes the capacity of a &#8216;happy husbandsman&#8217; or gardener to produce rich food by hard work. It is a great motto for home gardeners who produce food &#8216;by the sweat of thy brow&#8217;. The  buyers of London and Wise&#8217;s book may be assumed to have known the <em>Georgics </em>from their schooldays, so that the whole quotation would not have been necessary. Most of the book is about growing food, not about garden design. They had their priorities right. But the classical allusions are also significant and, in the course of the eighteenth century, led designers to re-create scenery from the landscape of antiquity in their country estates. They also started buying food from markets &#8211; which eventually led to the demise of vegetable growing on country estates. When their distant relatives talk about &#8216;restoring a walled garden&#8217; on a 21st century estate what they have in mind is turning the old walled vegetable garden into something ornamental which will bring in more visitors and more money. So they still uses gardens to produce &#8216;riches&#8217;. The <a href="http://www.gardenvisit.com/garden/the_walled_garden_at_scampston" rel="nofollow">Walled Garden at Scampston </a>is a good example.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christine		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/the-classical-gardening-ideal-of-george-london-henry-wise-and-virgils-georgics/#comment-3019</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Nov 2010 03:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=5950#comment-3019</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It seems the phrase is used at Papal Coronations. [ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEk4D5cnNls ]
Perhaps it is meant to remind the Pope that the all things of this world pass away so that he remains focused on eternal values?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems the phrase is used at Papal Coronations. [ <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEk4D5cnNls" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEk4D5cnNls</a> ]<br />
Perhaps it is meant to remind the Pope that the all things of this world pass away so that he remains focused on eternal values?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Thomas Mickey		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/the-classical-gardening-ideal-of-george-london-henry-wise-and-virgils-georgics/#comment-3018</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Thomas Mickey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2010 21:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=5950#comment-3018</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I enjoyed the details about the London and Wise frontispiece. thanks. what do the Latin words below the image mean?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoyed the details about the London and Wise frontispiece. thanks. what do the Latin words below the image mean?</p>
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