Comments on: The sacred lotus, Nelumbo nucifera, is the Flower Sermon and the holy flower of West, South and East Asia https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/the-sacred-lotus-nelumbo-nucifera-is-the-flower-sermon-and-the-holy-flower-of-west-south-and-east-asia/ Gardenvisit.com Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:52:11 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.5.8 By: Attitudes to life, death and trees in western culture and ‘civilization’ | Garden Design And Landscape Architecture Blog – Gardenvisit.com https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/the-sacred-lotus-nelumbo-nucifera-is-the-flower-sermon-and-the-holy-flower-of-west-south-and-east-asia/#comment-1863 Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:52:11 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=3984#comment-1863 […] what is left of the world’s forest cover we may be marching in the path of the Easter Islanders. At present, the most densely wooded countries are Finland (86% of the total land area), Sweden […]

]]> By: Talking gardens, roses, the language of symbols, sustainability and Christianity | Garden Design And Landscape Architecture Blog – Gardenvisit.com https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/the-sacred-lotus-nelumbo-nucifera-is-the-flower-sermon-and-the-holy-flower-of-west-south-and-east-asia/#comment-1862 Mon, 05 Apr 2010 07:10:31 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=3984#comment-1862 […] modernism to postmodernism continues, but with little knowledge and less thought. A recent post on The Fower Sermon, recalled that the dying Buddha used a single flower to speak volumes. He also advised: “All […]

]]> By: Christine https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/the-sacred-lotus-nelumbo-nucifera-is-the-flower-sermon-and-the-holy-flower-of-west-south-and-east-asia/#comment-1861 Wed, 24 Mar 2010 03:42:42 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=3984#comment-1861 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

[ http://www.cs.williams.edu/~lindsey/myths/myths_15.html ]

I take it we are OK about God creating us (male and female) but not that happy with his very first instructions to us?

a) Is this because we don’t want to increase in number?
b) We are not that sure what filling the earth means?
c) Much less subduing it?
d) The fish tend to go there own way anyway….(no wonder they travel in schools!)
e) The birds of the air are no more compliant….
f) And we are having only marginal success with “creatures that move on the ground.”

]]> By: Tom Turner https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/the-sacred-lotus-nelumbo-nucifera-is-the-flower-sermon-and-the-holy-flower-of-west-south-and-east-asia/#comment-1860 Sun, 21 Mar 2010 20:03:43 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=3984#comment-1860 A very good question – to which I am pleased to have found a very good answer. The Hebrew word rada means ‘to tread, to rule, have dominion, dominate’ and there were similar words in the other Semitic languages:
* Judeo-Aramaic rada “he drove, ruled, chastised”
* Syriac rada “he went on, moved along, drove, chastised, it flowed”
* Arabic rada(y) “he trod”
* Akkadian radu ” to drive, tend the flock,” related to radad * tr. v. 1. “he ruled, had dominion over, dominated;” 2.”he subuded, subjugated;” 3. (Post-Biblical Hebrew) “he chastised, punished,” and hirda “he subuded, subjugated (in the Bible occurring only Isaiah 41:2.).
This appears to add force the Ian McHarg/David Attenborough view that the Bible supports the exploitation of nature. It is a view which can be changed if a religion is allowed to change – but it puts fundamentalists in a difficult position with regard to ecology, sustainability and environmental values.
I think Islam is the most garden-friendly of the Abrahamic religions but that the three religions from irrigation countries are less environment-friendly than the religions from the rainfall/monsoon countries (inc South China, South East Asia and India). Monsoon countries have more pools – in which the Sacred Lotus can flower. The Abrahamic religions presumably saw this as idolatory, as they did tree worship.

]]> By: Christine https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/the-sacred-lotus-nelumbo-nucifera-is-the-flower-sermon-and-the-holy-flower-of-west-south-and-east-asia/#comment-1859 Sun, 21 Mar 2010 18:41:55 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=3984#comment-1859 Dominion – Any idea what the original Aramaic or Greek word used in the bible was?
[ http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=dominion&searchmode=none ] I’m not sure I’m much philosophically fonder of the ‘survival of the fittest’ Darwinian notion either! Humans after all could be equally destructive of the planet under a Darwinian justification.

]]> By: Tom Turner https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/the-sacred-lotus-nelumbo-nucifera-is-the-flower-sermon-and-the-holy-flower-of-west-south-and-east-asia/#comment-1858 Sat, 20 Mar 2010 07:11:13 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=3984#comment-1858 Yes, Christianity has much to recommend it, particularly if one is female, has no taste for slavery and prefers stirring the pot to being its meat. But Ian McHarg and David Attenborough both see Christianity as a disaster for the man:environment relationship. They blame the Book of Genesis for a host of problems from the burning of tropical rainforests to the extinction of species – and trace these problems to Genesis 1:28: “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.” I don’t see how the Book of Genesis can be blamed for the Easter Island disaster – but perhaps the culture of the island would have survived if they had become Buddhist, even if it is not much of a place for growing the sacred lotus.
Re Islam, I have read that the political class in the European country with the largest Islamic population (France) believes that part of the reason for Muslim men liking traditional ways so much is that it gives them dominion over their womenfolk.

]]> By: Christine https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/the-sacred-lotus-nelumbo-nucifera-is-the-flower-sermon-and-the-holy-flower-of-west-south-and-east-asia/#comment-1857 Sat, 20 Mar 2010 06:50:51 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=3984#comment-1857 Ok. As a female if the choice is a) being eaten or b) being a slave or c) being a Christian – I pick option c – even if this means losing my traditional land and intermarrying.

As for the reference to boys in the UK…perhaps being disappointed in their expectations they will consider converting to Islam and the option of several wives? I suppose females in general favour monogamy.

]]> By: Tom Turner https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/the-sacred-lotus-nelumbo-nucifera-is-the-flower-sermon-and-the-holy-flower-of-west-south-and-east-asia/#comment-1856 Fri, 19 Mar 2010 06:33:24 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=3984#comment-1856 Astonishing.
I wish they would teach the history of Easter Island in schools. By hearsay, the history teaching in UK schools is little-but-the-Tudors in primary school and little-but-the-Nazis in high school. So boys leave school thinking they should wear black jackets and boots to enjoy a wealth of nubile girls. I do not know what the girls think of this deal.

]]> By: Christine https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/the-sacred-lotus-nelumbo-nucifera-is-the-flower-sermon-and-the-holy-flower-of-west-south-and-east-asia/#comment-1855 Fri, 19 Mar 2010 06:23:27 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=3984#comment-1855 Well yes, then there is the Easter Island story Part II – which like the biblical stories seems to be a variant on the one Jared Diamond tells.
[ http://mysteriousplaces.com/Easter_Island/html/tour5.html ]

So, it is questionable which fate is the worst – to be eaten out of existence or to succomb to a foreign slave trading power.

]]> By: Tom Turner https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/the-sacred-lotus-nelumbo-nucifera-is-the-flower-sermon-and-the-holy-flower-of-west-south-and-east-asia/#comment-1854 Fri, 19 Mar 2010 05:41:00 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=3984#comment-1854 Australian indigenous culture was the very model of a sustained society – in the strict sense of a society which was maintained over a long period of time. Interesting that a belief system was an integral part of the achievement.
Bangladesh could turn into an Easter Island type story. The laud used to be protected from floods by the great swamps and forests in the foothills of the Himalayas. Very few people could live there because of the malaria. Then an alien culture arrived with anti-malarial drugs and the forest lands became part of another country. The forests were cleared and the flood problem grows worse every year. One day, all the people will be swept into the ocean. The country is too flat to have caves! If the forests had remained sacred, as they do in Japan, the problem might have been averted. I guess the lotus is ‘sacred’ in a half-hearted way – but Bangladesh is an Islamic country and so idolatory and tree-worship would be taboo.
Jared Diamond tells a wonderful story, or rather a wonderfully awful story.

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