Comments on: Socrates, chives, tomatoes and biodiversity on my London roof garden

By: Christine

Christine — Sun, 12 Sep 2010 04:41:18 +0000

Apologies here is the link to the website in which the merri creek market garden is featured.
[ http://onelittledetail.wordpress.com/2008/03/09/merri-good-morning/ ]

Thankyou for the example of the Dacha’s, I wonder whether to some extent, urban agriculture as noted in the Cuban experience does not mirror this phenomenon of a sense of chronic insecurity with government?

Saying that, I believe there is a vital place for a twentyfirst century urban agriculture (both public and private)which falls within the realm of pleasure/leisure gardens, gourmet restuarant gardens, edible street trees etc and the aesthetic greening of urban spaces within cities. [ie It is not about commerical agricultural activity rather it is supplemental to commerical agricultural production. Although produce may well be sold at local markets or organic style markets.]

As GM food and polytunnels, I would say no. The critical factor for Sustainability is the competition between urban and other uses of prime agricultural land with increasing populations.
An important question is national food security and how much food is grown locally as opposed to how much food is imported. A nation should be aware of the status of its agricultural deficits and surpluses and whether it is reliant on agricultural and land-use policies in other nations in order to eat.

As for the middle floor flat dweller, do you have a balcony? Even a windowbox created outside the kitchen window can produce herbs and other edibles? I am sure Tom could advise.

By: GardenTubLover

GardenTubLover — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 14:07:37 +0000

Looks great. Always wanted a roof garden, shame I live in a middle floor flat.

By: Tom Turner

Tom Turner — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 04:24:40 +0000

I think 'urban agriculture' is a well defined concept - with Cuba the best-known example. But with 'sustainable agriculture' it is easier to point to examples of what should not be done than of what should be done. Pumping out 'fossil' ground water, in the Gulf, Punjab and elsewhere, is unsustainable - it cannot continue in the medium or long terms. But the development of GM foods and shifting food production into polytunnels could maximise efficiency of production while lowering quality: would this count as sustainable? [PS: please could you check the link to Merri Creek]. In Russia, 'official' food is so toxic that everyone who can wants to grow their own food. So in Russia in 1997 'at least 38 percent of Russians supplied themselves with food grown on their dacha plots... the director of Semko-Junior, a major Russian seed trader, said that currently some 90 percent of Russian potatoes and 75 percent of its vegetables are produced on dacha plots' . So there is a very strong qualitative argument for urban agriculture - and Russia is way ahead of China in this respect (only?). I think we grow about 4 months supply of potatoes/year - and the quality is amazing. The variety is Charlotte. Our local supermarket charges £1.65/kg for them (compared to £0.55/kg for 'white potatoes' and £5.00/kg for Dauphinoise) but the quality of their Charlottes is nowhere near as good as ours. They are pallid and puffy. Ours are a golden yellow, waxy and wonderful - no need to lace them with salt or butter. Ooooooh - sooooo - gooood!

By: Christine

Christine — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 23:05:15 +0000

Todmorden inhabits a hybrid space between sustainable agriculture and urban agriculture. Something conceptually like the ‘moose-in-traffic’ concept. In this sense, I wonder whether the drivers of the phenomena are a form of rural adjustment to urbanisation or rural agricutlural nostaglia?

1) This is Thomas Jefferson’s vegetable garden at Monticelli.[ http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1Tje6HpjYPg/Sj2RTR-X3eI/AAAAAAAABDo/3c6NLdryv5Y/s400/monticell+garden+2.jpg ]

2) Which is different to the market garden (which was purely a commercial enterprise). [ http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1Tje6HpjYPg/Sj2RTR-X3eI/AAAAAAAABDo/3c6NLdryv5Y/s400/monticell+garden+2.jpg ] This garden is in Merri Creek in Coburg, Melbourne.

3) Which is different again to a subsistence or self-sufficiency approach which promotes backyard suburban agriculture.[ http://subsistencepatternfoodgarden.blogspot.com/2010/08/jacks-back.html ]

By: Tom Turner

Tom Turner — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 04:49:09 +0000

Yes. Sustainable agriculture and urban agriculture are separate but linked. Jac Smit used to say that ‘cities must become more productive’ and one aspect of this was the production of food within city limits. I am sure he would enjoy a visit to Todmorden http://www.cabe.org.uk/case-studies/incredible-edible-todmorden. It is a great example of urban agriculture and will help the town to ‘sustain’ [in the etymological sense of ‘keep going’] its food supply.

By: Christine

Christine — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 23:05:02 +0000

Perhaps these are two different but linked conversations 1) urban agriculture and 2) sustainable agriuclture?
[ http://www.north-endrenewal.org/245/world-agriculture-must-become-more-sustainable ]

By: Tom Turner

Tom Turner — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 09:09:51 +0000

That is the best use for a SLOAPy plaza I have ever seen - referring to Space Left Over After Planning, rather than the Sri Lankan Association of Agricultural Professionals - which should obviously learn from the Japanese and take on a new role!

By: Christine

Christine — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 08:38:10 +0000

Trust the Japanese to lead the way in the artistically considering the topic of urban agriculture! [ http://www.metro.tokyo.jp/ENGLISH/PHOTO/2006/061104.htm ]

By: Tom Turner

Tom Turner — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 08:14:24 +0000

I am very interested in City Farming – and once spent six months working for Jac Smit http://www.cityfarmer.org/deskSmit.html He was one of the most intereting people I have ever worked with or for though I can only remember a few conversations about urban agriculture. He had trained as a landscape architect and then become an urban and regional planner. He then gave this up for the much more important job of promoting urban agriculture.

By: Christine

Christine — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 01:04:03 +0000

In considering functionality perhaps you might be interested in the urban agriculture movement?
[ http://www.cityfarmer.org/subrooftops.html ]

To begin to think aesthetics it is hard to go past the French…
[ http://gardenrooms.typepad.com/garden_rooms/2008/02/roof-top-3.html ]