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	Comments on: Retrospective Planning	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Architecture Linked		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/retrospective-planning/#comment-4658</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Architecture Linked]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:04:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=8081#comment-4658</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m glad to see the Gongbei District of Zhuhai, among others, begin to recognize the importance of, and work toward creating, green space in their overly-urban cities.  Keep it up!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad to see the Gongbei District of Zhuhai, among others, begin to recognize the importance of, and work toward creating, green space in their overly-urban cities.  Keep it up!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Turner		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/retrospective-planning/#comment-4657</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Turner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 06:57:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=8081#comment-4657</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thank you all for a very interesting discussion of urban design in China. I would like to contribute a comment and a recommendation.
The comment is the one I made to some Dutch landscape architects after touring their country c2000: &#039;The changes you have made to your country in the past 50 years are amazing. Some of the work is excellent. But most of it looks as though it was done far too quickly&#039;.
My recommendation for Chinese landscape architects and urban designers to prepare for what is likely to happen next: I think the world&#039;s biggest property bubble will end, sooner or later, with the world&#039;s biggest property bust.  Just when China has prepared a vast technical and professional built environemnt workforce, there will be an almighty POP. The cranes will disappear, the scaffolding will go into neat stacks, the earthmoving equipment will be put up for sale. And the professional workforce will need to find other things to do. So now is the time for the landscape profession to gear up for the next phase. It should be thinking about how to re-work all those rushed projects, about how to make them more beautiful, about how to make them more sustainable, about how to involve local communities in their design and management - and about how to &#039;give them a soul&#039;. The souls they need are the souls of the people. But what is a soul? Hard to say, but material goods are easy to define: they are consumer goods. &#039;Spiritual goods&#039; can then be given a negative definition: they are the &#039;flip side&#039; of &#039;material goods&#039;. See the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2012/01/28/2012-green-dream-for-chinese-landscape-architecture-2012-%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD%E9%A3%8E%E6%99%AF%E5%9B%AD%E6%9E%97%E2%80%98%E7%BB%BF%E4%B9%8B%E6%A2%A6%E2%80%9C/#comment-11468&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;wisdom of the Ancient Sages&lt;/a&gt;.
PS Trees do not do as much for air quality as one would like them to. They take in C02 by day and they give it out at night. And some dust accumulates on leaves, which then fall off and can be taken away.  BUT a tree-filled city makes one FEEL better.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you all for a very interesting discussion of urban design in China. I would like to contribute a comment and a recommendation.<br />
The comment is the one I made to some Dutch landscape architects after touring their country c2000: &#8216;The changes you have made to your country in the past 50 years are amazing. Some of the work is excellent. But most of it looks as though it was done far too quickly&#8217;.<br />
My recommendation for Chinese landscape architects and urban designers to prepare for what is likely to happen next: I think the world&#8217;s biggest property bubble will end, sooner or later, with the world&#8217;s biggest property bust.  Just when China has prepared a vast technical and professional built environemnt workforce, there will be an almighty POP. The cranes will disappear, the scaffolding will go into neat stacks, the earthmoving equipment will be put up for sale. And the professional workforce will need to find other things to do. So now is the time for the landscape profession to gear up for the next phase. It should be thinking about how to re-work all those rushed projects, about how to make them more beautiful, about how to make them more sustainable, about how to involve local communities in their design and management &#8211; and about how to &#8216;give them a soul&#8217;. The souls they need are the souls of the people. But what is a soul? Hard to say, but material goods are easy to define: they are consumer goods. &#8216;Spiritual goods&#8217; can then be given a negative definition: they are the &#8216;flip side&#8217; of &#8216;material goods&#8217;. See the <a href="http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2012/01/28/2012-green-dream-for-chinese-landscape-architecture-2012-%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD%E9%A3%8E%E6%99%AF%E5%9B%AD%E6%9E%97%E2%80%98%E7%BB%BF%E4%B9%8B%E6%A2%A6%E2%80%9C/#comment-11468" rel="nofollow">wisdom of the Ancient Sages</a>.<br />
PS Trees do not do as much for air quality as one would like them to. They take in C02 by day and they give it out at night. And some dust accumulates on leaves, which then fall off and can be taken away.  BUT a tree-filled city makes one FEEL better.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christine		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/retrospective-planning/#comment-4656</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 04:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=8081#comment-4656</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[ps. Tom, there are some trees in the photograph and even a square, although it is very hard to see them! How many trees and green surfaces would be needed in an urban design solution to filter that air? Or is it a larger scale problem of deforrestation in peri-urban and rural areas also?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ps. Tom, there are some trees in the photograph and even a square, although it is very hard to see them! How many trees and green surfaces would be needed in an urban design solution to filter that air? Or is it a larger scale problem of deforrestation in peri-urban and rural areas also?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christine		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/retrospective-planning/#comment-4655</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 04:01:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=8081#comment-4655</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Zoe, some comfort can be derived from the fact that the West often does the very same thing in unconsciously copying the work of good designers. The work is not as good because they are only copying the appearance not understanding the theory that has informed the work. Some good comes of this, as other designers produce more or less thoughtful copies. But usually the end result is not so good. An example of this in the West were the social housing projects that were produced in many western countries during the 1960s (the first of which was demolished in the 1970s).

It wasn&#039;t always the design that was inappropriate, but often the politics or the way the project was funded placed great restrictions on how it was implemented, often resulting in a bad outcome.

Clean air, as the Beijing Olympics demonstrated, required many of the cars to be taken off the road and most of the factories to be temporarily closed down.

The solution to the air quality problem in China therefore could be solar, electric and hybrid cars for private travel, a sophisticated public transport network and promotion of the Chinese tradition of cycling for fitness benefits.

All of these measures are essential in the West too, so in many ways it is a case of us working together to solve this problem that we share for the world. Chinese thinkers will undoubtably come up with their own unique solutions which hopefully they will also share with the West.

A tip to ask of the people working in the foreign company: are they the A team (or the B or C team?) The A team are usually the people who work most closely with the designer of world renown.

Another fundamental issue is that the idea of the &#039;international style&#039; still has currency (perhaps more currency than it should have) so cultural influences on aesthetics are not considered valuable. So hopefully there is a middle way between an international style and tradition.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zoe, some comfort can be derived from the fact that the West often does the very same thing in unconsciously copying the work of good designers. The work is not as good because they are only copying the appearance not understanding the theory that has informed the work. Some good comes of this, as other designers produce more or less thoughtful copies. But usually the end result is not so good. An example of this in the West were the social housing projects that were produced in many western countries during the 1960s (the first of which was demolished in the 1970s).</p>
<p>It wasn&#8217;t always the design that was inappropriate, but often the politics or the way the project was funded placed great restrictions on how it was implemented, often resulting in a bad outcome.</p>
<p>Clean air, as the Beijing Olympics demonstrated, required many of the cars to be taken off the road and most of the factories to be temporarily closed down.</p>
<p>The solution to the air quality problem in China therefore could be solar, electric and hybrid cars for private travel, a sophisticated public transport network and promotion of the Chinese tradition of cycling for fitness benefits.</p>
<p>All of these measures are essential in the West too, so in many ways it is a case of us working together to solve this problem that we share for the world. Chinese thinkers will undoubtably come up with their own unique solutions which hopefully they will also share with the West.</p>
<p>A tip to ask of the people working in the foreign company: are they the A team (or the B or C team?) The A team are usually the people who work most closely with the designer of world renown.</p>
<p>Another fundamental issue is that the idea of the &#8216;international style&#8217; still has currency (perhaps more currency than it should have) so cultural influences on aesthetics are not considered valuable. So hopefully there is a middle way between an international style and tradition.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Zoe		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/retrospective-planning/#comment-4654</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zoe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=8081#comment-4654</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Lawrence, thanks for your opinion. It is good to know how the other people think about the current projects in China. As I said before, a project can not be judged without knowing the functionality,land-use, and relationship with city context. My intention was not to give a positive or negative comment for Gongbei project. To be honest, the form of this project seems too familiar just like other projects happened everywhere in China.  With more than 3years working experience  at a foreign company in China, I see how they produce Chinese projects. There is no a single project they made which has urban sustainable thoughts through the whole design process at that time. And the company where I had worked before is very well-known foreign company in China(I don&#039;t want to mention the name here). I have worked very close with an American guy who was a main role  for those porjects. As I know, there are many foreign companies were doing the exactly same thing at that time.  But I didn&#039;t say all foreign companies are responsible for the bad.  My point is not to blame foreign consultants for China’s urban planning problems even though the misleading projects happened in China all the time. If I didn&#039;t study here, I would not realize what is wrong with those projects happened in China. I think Chinese environmental designers have to improve their ability and knowledge to recongnize what is good design for environment, and what is the rubbish for the cities in China. Unconscious copying the foreign projects is not a solution for China.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lawrence, thanks for your opinion. It is good to know how the other people think about the current projects in China. As I said before, a project can not be judged without knowing the functionality,land-use, and relationship with city context. My intention was not to give a positive or negative comment for Gongbei project. To be honest, the form of this project seems too familiar just like other projects happened everywhere in China.  With more than 3years working experience  at a foreign company in China, I see how they produce Chinese projects. There is no a single project they made which has urban sustainable thoughts through the whole design process at that time. And the company where I had worked before is very well-known foreign company in China(I don&#8217;t want to mention the name here). I have worked very close with an American guy who was a main role  for those porjects. As I know, there are many foreign companies were doing the exactly same thing at that time.  But I didn&#8217;t say all foreign companies are responsible for the bad.  My point is not to blame foreign consultants for China’s urban planning problems even though the misleading projects happened in China all the time. If I didn&#8217;t study here, I would not realize what is wrong with those projects happened in China. I think Chinese environmental designers have to improve their ability and knowledge to recongnize what is good design for environment, and what is the rubbish for the cities in China. Unconscious copying the foreign projects is not a solution for China.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Turner		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/retrospective-planning/#comment-4653</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Turner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 18:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=8081#comment-4653</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/retrospective-planning/#comment-4652&quot;&gt;Lawrence&lt;/a&gt;.

I have asked several Chinese people about the emptying villages - and received several replies (1) Chinese people don&#039;t like the countryside (2) but they do like gardens (3) at present, regulations do not allow the purchase of houses in villages as second homes. My guess is that, as in most countries at most points in history, the taste for summer homes will develop in China]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/retrospective-planning/#comment-4652">Lawrence</a>.</p>
<p>I have asked several Chinese people about the emptying villages &#8211; and received several replies (1) Chinese people don&#8217;t like the countryside (2) but they do like gardens (3) at present, regulations do not allow the purchase of houses in villages as second homes. My guess is that, as in most countries at most points in history, the taste for summer homes will develop in China</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lawrence		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/retrospective-planning/#comment-4652</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lawrence]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 06:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=8081#comment-4652</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[China&#039;s urban population exceeded its rural population for the first time at the beginning of this year. There are now 680 million urban dwellers, 51.27 percent of the nearly 1.35 billion population. This trend is predicted to speed up. However, there are still very many rural communities who live in &quot;old&quot; China, living from the land with the strength of their own bodies and where very often my Chinese colleagues cannot communicate easily with the villagers because of the dialect they speak. So, that world is still there.

I wonder what will happen to the villages as they empty? In Europe they would most likely become holiday homes, but I am not sure if the Chinese middle class is ready to view the rural life as romantic enough to want to do this, I suspect not.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>China&#8217;s urban population exceeded its rural population for the first time at the beginning of this year. There are now 680 million urban dwellers, 51.27 percent of the nearly 1.35 billion population. This trend is predicted to speed up. However, there are still very many rural communities who live in &#8220;old&#8221; China, living from the land with the strength of their own bodies and where very often my Chinese colleagues cannot communicate easily with the villagers because of the dialect they speak. So, that world is still there.</p>
<p>I wonder what will happen to the villages as they empty? In Europe they would most likely become holiday homes, but I am not sure if the Chinese middle class is ready to view the rural life as romantic enough to want to do this, I suspect not.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christine		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/retrospective-planning/#comment-4651</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 04:56:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=8081#comment-4651</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Perhaps I watch too many Chinese films...most recently &#039;Red Cliffs&#039; (sorry not sure of its Chinese name). The world depicted in these historical films is always so beautiful - the gardens and the architecture and the natural environment - that it is impossible to wonder where did this world go? [ http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/movie/128101/red.cliff ] You can watch the trailer. This scene is a bit militaristic but there is still the general impression in the other shots of the Chinese aesthetic.
[ http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__RpFav124wI/SxRoIrrsuQI/AAAAAAAAAnw/awoOatE2qN4/s1600/redcliff2.jpg ] and]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps I watch too many Chinese films&#8230;most recently &#8216;Red Cliffs&#8217; (sorry not sure of its Chinese name). The world depicted in these historical films is always so beautiful &#8211; the gardens and the architecture and the natural environment &#8211; that it is impossible to wonder where did this world go? [ <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/movie/128101/red.cliff" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/movie/128101/red.cliff</a> ] You can watch the trailer. This scene is a bit militaristic but there is still the general impression in the other shots of the Chinese aesthetic.<br />
[ <a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__RpFav124wI/SxRoIrrsuQI/AAAAAAAAAnw/awoOatE2qN4/s1600/redcliff2.jpg" rel="nofollow ugc">http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__RpFav124wI/SxRoIrrsuQI/AAAAAAAAAnw/awoOatE2qN4/s1600/redcliff2.jpg</a> ] and</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lawrence		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/retrospective-planning/#comment-4650</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lawrence]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 04:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=8081#comment-4650</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jerry, do you mean what do I think of Gongbei? I don&#039;t understand your question.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jerry, do you mean what do I think of Gongbei? I don&#8217;t understand your question.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jerry		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/retrospective-planning/#comment-4649</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jerry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 21:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=8081#comment-4649</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[May I ask what do you mean of &#039;Gongbei?&#039; Lawrence]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>May I ask what do you mean of &#8216;Gongbei?&#8217; Lawrence</p>
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