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	Comments on: Love and care for the ancient trees in Greenwich Park	</title>
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	<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/love-and-care-for-the-ancient-trees-in-greenwich-park/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 11 Oct 2011 01:33:46 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Christine		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/love-and-care-for-the-ancient-trees-in-greenwich-park/#comment-4417</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Oct 2011 01:33:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=7590#comment-4417</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The history of the Kojiki (Record of ancient matters) suggests that understanding the links between Japanese and Chinese culture might not be as simple as it might at first seem. The adoption of Chinese characters to create a Japanese literary form in an otherwise oral culture is a good example. [ http://artsci.wustl.edu/~copeland/kojiki.html ]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The history of the Kojiki (Record of ancient matters) suggests that understanding the links between Japanese and Chinese culture might not be as simple as it might at first seem. The adoption of Chinese characters to create a Japanese literary form in an otherwise oral culture is a good example. [ <a href="http://artsci.wustl.edu/~copeland/kojiki.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://artsci.wustl.edu/~copeland/kojiki.html</a> ]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Turner		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/love-and-care-for-the-ancient-trees-in-greenwich-park/#comment-4416</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Turner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 03:51:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=7590#comment-4416</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/love-and-care-for-the-ancient-trees-in-greenwich-park/#comment-4414&quot;&gt;Christine&lt;/a&gt;.

Yes, I think that in Japan, as in China, the emperors were Sons of Heaven from an early point in time. My impression is that there are significant overlaps between Chinese and Japanese history and that Japanese cultural historians lack enthusiasm for exploring these links. I was very interested to read, from your link, that the Japanese imperial family is giving archaeologists access to the imperial tombs which throw light on the origin of the imperial family. The Chinese also have unexcavated imperial tombs. So there must be a lot of eastern history waiting to be &#039;uncovered&#039;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/love-and-care-for-the-ancient-trees-in-greenwich-park/#comment-4414">Christine</a>.</p>
<p>Yes, I think that in Japan, as in China, the emperors were Sons of Heaven from an early point in time. My impression is that there are significant overlaps between Chinese and Japanese history and that Japanese cultural historians lack enthusiasm for exploring these links. I was very interested to read, from your link, that the Japanese imperial family is giving archaeologists access to the imperial tombs which throw light on the origin of the imperial family. The Chinese also have unexcavated imperial tombs. So there must be a lot of eastern history waiting to be &#8216;uncovered&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christine		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/love-and-care-for-the-ancient-trees-in-greenwich-park/#comment-4415</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 02:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=7590#comment-4415</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[ps. An event in Japanese history in which both Shinto and Buddhism are implicated is the battle of Azukizaka involving the samuri and Ikko-ikki. The outcome is the temple site is destroyed and replaced with Osaka castle.
[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishiyama_Hongan-ji ]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ps. An event in Japanese history in which both Shinto and Buddhism are implicated is the battle of Azukizaka involving the samuri and Ikko-ikki. The outcome is the temple site is destroyed and replaced with Osaka castle.<br />
[ <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishiyama_Hongan-ji" rel="nofollow ugc">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishiyama_Hongan-ji</a> ]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christine		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/love-and-care-for-the-ancient-trees-in-greenwich-park/#comment-4414</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 02:07:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=7590#comment-4414</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It is not necessary to go to the Ancient period to find a situation where the king is given the status of a god. This is seems to be so in the Shinto religion. [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_of_Japan ]

However, understanding Shinto, even though it is still followed today is quite difficult. For example in the Japanese text &#039;Nihon Shoki&#039; (The Chronicles of Japan) the word shinto is only used in three sentences:

1. The emperor [Yomei] believed in the teachings of Buddha and revered Shinto.
2. The emperor [Kotoku] revered the teachings of Buddha but scorned Shinto. (He cut down the trees at Ikukunitama shrine.)
3. The expression &#039;as a kami would&#039; means to conform to Shinto. It also means in essence to possess oneself of Shinto.
(source: &#039;Shinto in the history of Japanese Religion&#039;, Tashio, Gobbins &#038; Gay in the Journal of Japanese Studies (1981).)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not necessary to go to the Ancient period to find a situation where the king is given the status of a god. This is seems to be so in the Shinto religion. [ <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_of_Japan" rel="nofollow ugc">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_of_Japan</a> ]</p>
<p>However, understanding Shinto, even though it is still followed today is quite difficult. For example in the Japanese text &#8216;Nihon Shoki&#8217; (The Chronicles of Japan) the word shinto is only used in three sentences:</p>
<p>1. The emperor [Yomei] believed in the teachings of Buddha and revered Shinto.<br />
2. The emperor [Kotoku] revered the teachings of Buddha but scorned Shinto. (He cut down the trees at Ikukunitama shrine.)<br />
3. The expression &#8216;as a kami would&#8217; means to conform to Shinto. It also means in essence to possess oneself of Shinto.<br />
(source: &#8216;Shinto in the history of Japanese Religion&#8217;, Tashio, Gobbins &amp; Gay in the Journal of Japanese Studies (1981).)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Turner		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/love-and-care-for-the-ancient-trees-in-greenwich-park/#comment-4413</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Turner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Oct 2011 06:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=7590#comment-4413</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The Wiki article is interesting but, I think, does not give enough space to the Ancient period. In Egypt and, to a lesser extent, in Mesopotamia gods and kings were closely identified. The separation came partly from Christianity, which saw a Kingdom of Heaven in which God ruled, and partly from the animist/Celtic tradition, which identified gods with mountains, rivers, forests etc. The Indian religions also separated gods and kings - but in East Asia they came to be identified (probably through the influence of Buddhism).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Wiki article is interesting but, I think, does not give enough space to the Ancient period. In Egypt and, to a lesser extent, in Mesopotamia gods and kings were closely identified. The separation came partly from Christianity, which saw a Kingdom of Heaven in which God ruled, and partly from the animist/Celtic tradition, which identified gods with mountains, rivers, forests etc. The Indian religions also separated gods and kings &#8211; but in East Asia they came to be identified (probably through the influence of Buddhism).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christine		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/love-and-care-for-the-ancient-trees-in-greenwich-park/#comment-4412</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Oct 2011 01:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=7590#comment-4412</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yes the separation of church and state is a good outcome of the reformation. [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state ] Perhaps the question has arisen in history as a matter of finding the right balance between the spiritual and the temporal realms?

Although I have no experience of a theocracy, my sense is I would only want to live in one where the ruler was benevolent. It would be interesting to research the relationship between good temporal and spiritual rulers and good art and urban projects!

It does not seem beneficial for the state to run the church (as in China) nor for the church to run the state (as in Iran). At times the state running the church has seemed to have resulted in beneficial outcomes, ie. Holy Roman Empire and at times the church running the state seemed to be beneficial in outcome, ie. Tibet.

However, the Dalai Lama, has himself chosen to separate the temporal power as head of state from the spiritual power as the head of religion. Although, in the Vatican State the Pope obviously retains both roles, he is ex officio head of state. Perhaps Lhasa should be given the same status as the Vatican city?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes the separation of church and state is a good outcome of the reformation. [ <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state" rel="nofollow ugc">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state</a> ] Perhaps the question has arisen in history as a matter of finding the right balance between the spiritual and the temporal realms?</p>
<p>Although I have no experience of a theocracy, my sense is I would only want to live in one where the ruler was benevolent. It would be interesting to research the relationship between good temporal and spiritual rulers and good art and urban projects!</p>
<p>It does not seem beneficial for the state to run the church (as in China) nor for the church to run the state (as in Iran). At times the state running the church has seemed to have resulted in beneficial outcomes, ie. Holy Roman Empire and at times the church running the state seemed to be beneficial in outcome, ie. Tibet.</p>
<p>However, the Dalai Lama, has himself chosen to separate the temporal power as head of state from the spiritual power as the head of religion. Although, in the Vatican State the Pope obviously retains both roles, he is ex officio head of state. Perhaps Lhasa should be given the same status as the Vatican city?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Turner		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/love-and-care-for-the-ancient-trees-in-greenwich-park/#comment-4411</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Turner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Oct 2011 10:38:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=7590#comment-4411</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/love-and-care-for-the-ancient-trees-in-greenwich-park/#comment-4410&quot;&gt;Christine&lt;/a&gt;.

That is a very good analogy, but bone-chilling.  Despite the fact that bringing church and state together is good for the arts, I think it much better to keep them apart. Luckily the world has few theocratic states left, but Iran is enough to remind us that they are a bad idea, leading to injustice and militarism.  I am beginning to wonder if this discussion has strayed too far off topic. But maybe not: Greenwich Park and its chestnuts would not exist if Charles II had not had theocratic tendencies and my bones are also chilled by the reflection that many of the world&#039;s best urban design projects have come about when church and state are aligned if not unified.  But I still don&#039;t think Popes should have temporal power.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/love-and-care-for-the-ancient-trees-in-greenwich-park/#comment-4410">Christine</a>.</p>
<p>That is a very good analogy, but bone-chilling.  Despite the fact that bringing church and state together is good for the arts, I think it much better to keep them apart. Luckily the world has few theocratic states left, but Iran is enough to remind us that they are a bad idea, leading to injustice and militarism.  I am beginning to wonder if this discussion has strayed too far off topic. But maybe not: Greenwich Park and its chestnuts would not exist if Charles II had not had theocratic tendencies and my bones are also chilled by the reflection that many of the world&#8217;s best urban design projects have come about when church and state are aligned if not unified.  But I still don&#8217;t think Popes should have temporal power.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christine		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/love-and-care-for-the-ancient-trees-in-greenwich-park/#comment-4410</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Oct 2011 01:52:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=7590#comment-4410</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There is more in common between Thomas More and Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Consider that the Pope&#039;s context is more like the King&#039;s context during the war. Both had wider responsibilities.
[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_VI_of_the_United_Kingdom ]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is more in common between Thomas More and Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Consider that the Pope&#8217;s context is more like the King&#8217;s context during the war. Both had wider responsibilities.<br />
[ <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_VI_of_the_United_Kingdom" rel="nofollow ugc">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_VI_of_the_United_Kingdom</a> ]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Turner		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/love-and-care-for-the-ancient-trees-in-greenwich-park/#comment-4409</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Turner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Oct 2011 06:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=7590#comment-4409</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/love-and-care-for-the-ancient-trees-in-greenwich-park/#comment-4408&quot;&gt;Christine&lt;/a&gt;.

It is not for me to judge, or to make suggestions, but the traditional Christian policy was to &#039;go to the stake&#039; for matters of high principle and high import - as the author of &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_more&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Utopia &lt;/a&gt;did.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/love-and-care-for-the-ancient-trees-in-greenwich-park/#comment-4408">Christine</a>.</p>
<p>It is not for me to judge, or to make suggestions, but the traditional Christian policy was to &#8216;go to the stake&#8217; for matters of high principle and high import &#8211; as the author of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_more" rel="nofollow">Utopia </a>did.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christine		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/love-and-care-for-the-ancient-trees-in-greenwich-park/#comment-4408</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Oct 2011 05:48:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=7590#comment-4408</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oh. What makes you say he is placing material concerns above spiritual values and honor?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh. What makes you say he is placing material concerns above spiritual values and honor?</p>
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