Comments on: Green vegetated roofs in the theory of landscape and architecture

By: PG

PG — Wed, 03 Nov 2010 02:46:54 +0000

Does not matter what planners and architects do or say , cities will never ever be ecological , and the people who live their even less.
Planners architects,politians and civil servants have run out of ideas and creativity , they have become city dwellers with city dwellers minds , unless something is done to change ideas and ways of thinking , everything will get worse , just like the financial and banking systems

By: Tom Turner

Tom Turner — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 06:30:24 +0000

My (limited) experience of Asian cities confirms your view. They are needlessly terrible and produce an often-grim quality of life.
You are right though, that much could be saved if more people worked from home. South Korea has one of the best broadband networks in the world and people COULD work from home if they were trusted to do so.
Another interesting point is that in periods of stress modern cities seem to be able to adapt and survive with far lower levels of resource input, as in the Gaza strip during the past two years.

By: PG

PG — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 06:09:38 +0000

I have often thought about cities and their necessity today . In history , cities were fortfied and protected areas with everything all together because of transport and communication problems. This is not the case today , transport and communications are good , and we have to transport everything to cities , either for production or use . This creates road jams and pollution and is far from ecological due to large areas of concrete and tarmack or even efficient .
Look at continental European countries , a lot of people try and have jobs where they can work from home ( less pollution , less lost time , cheaper , better quality of life), they don’t need or want city life . Also large companies ( banks , finance government ) are all in cities , do they really need to be ?
I think we have to have new ideas about countries and cities , finance and industry , but how to get governments and populations to react ?
One thing Asian populations have forgotten today is quality of life , the meaning of ecology , leaving the planet in a better state than when we started .

By: Tom Turner

Tom Turner — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 16:09:04 +0000

Thank you for an interesting comment on Singapore. The word ‘green’ has two meanings in this context (1) vegetated (2) environmentally responsible – as in ‘green’ politics.
Could it be that Singapore can claim to be green in the sense of ‘vegetated’ – without even claiming to being ‘green’ in the political/environmental sense?
I think this is often the case with intensively managed green walls. They look beautiful but they consume resources: electricity, peat composts, maintenance visits, water etc.
Re the need for research, the answer is a very big YES. It is perfectly possible that if research funding was poured in the problem could be solved. The historic examples of this approach are the development of the Atom Bomb and the Appollo Programme. These were primarily US research programmes. Just think what might be done with a worldwide research programme looking at every aspect of green energy, green architecture, green transport and, of course, GREEN LANDSCAPE ARCHITECTURE.

By: PG

PG — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 07:01:12 +0000

I think we have to ask the question , are cities relevant or necessary today , and also to take into account all the forms of pollution , and that should include raw material consumption . With modern means of communication does everybody need to be in the same place at the same time , would it not be better to modify the current industrial or organisational models .
Government publicity shows Singapore to be a grean city . Apart from the fact that no city is ecological , Singapore is no example to follow
Singapore has’nt had an original idea in its 40 years . They should have been using the sun the generate energy and hot water for years . Building orientation is an important factor , and the lack of use of double glazing and good insulation is flagrant in Singapore , along with the excessive use of Air conditioning and lack of double doors to stop the cooled air from escaping.
Green also means manufacturing and using the minimum of natural resources possible , that includes energy .
Singapore along with Malaysia has a very bad habit in building , keeping it for a few years , then knocking down and rebuilding , instead of renovation . The government likes the current policy as it gives them material for land recalamation , which again is not ecological , having destroyed large areas of coral , and modifying sea currents . No where is the cost and pollution taken into account for producing large amounts of concrete and gravel etc , and even more running costs .
And going into todays events , should’nt the governments at the Copenhagen meeting be talking about finding money to do research into new techniques and ideas to help the planet , and reduce consumption and maybe population . Or is this not inline with current financial policy , it does not increase GDP !
There have to be big new ideas for the future , not just the old ideas repainted .

By: Christine

Christine — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 04:41:41 +0000

Thankyou Gordon for your account of the constraints and unique processes surrounding the procurement of the Hamburg Trade Fair extension. It certainly provides invaluable insight into what is likely to be a very challenging area of endeavour for some time into the future as all the difficulties of designing and implementing innovative projects are ironed out.

It is also a uniquely interesting account for highlighting the difficulties which still exist as the various disciplines attempt to collaborate on projects while maintaining their ‘traditional’ interests and concerns.

The balls that need to be kept in play as these projects proceed are only increasing. The solutions which need to be found are often not this OR that, but rather BOTH this AND that. (The goal should be to achieve the project completion without prejudice to anyone’s business through extraordinary delays etc.) Perhaps it would be worth advocating that high risk experimental projects of this type should have some sort of government insurance scheme to protect those who are unduly effected during the procurement process?

A term used by Horst Rittel to describe problems of this type is a ‘wicked problem’: meaning a problem characterised by multilayering, complex social contexts and a demand for an integrated approach.

This suggests to me that there are considerable new challenges evolving in the sustainability environment also for project management professions.

By: Tom Turner

Tom Turner — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 06:11:03 +0000

A fascinating design account – and particularly interesting that the pressure came from the Hamburg Parks Department. UK parks departments are spineless and run by leisure services committees with more interest in sport than leisure or service or amenity. So if a similar outcome were to be achieved in the UK the pressure would have come from the British public, who see the preservation of POS as roughly equivalent to preserving Magna Carta. I wish people had an equal interest in the creation of new public open spaces.

By: Gordon Evans

Gordon Evans — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 05:24:03 +0000

Christine: The extension of the Hamburg Trade Fair was politically an extremely hot potato because it expanded into Hamburg’s premier public park, Planten un Blomen. We felled 140 trees, many of them over 100 years old and demolished Karl Plomin’s terraces, built for the 1963 International Garden Exhibition. The location and design of the building were therefore led by landscape considerations and an immense pressure from the Hamburg parks authority, we were required to restore the parkland in full for public access. There was a very absorbing series of dicussions and models with the architects and structural engineers where we sacrificed roof loading for the sake of thinner and more elegant trusses. We had to continually test the market during this stage to ensure that the substrate weights we were proposing were actually achievable, causing two of our five substrate tenderers to drop out of the competition. The final structure was so sensitive that we had to load the roof prior to the interior fitting out as it was calculated to sink 7 cm with the external loading. With its 8,000 square metres, I believe that this is the largest herbaceous garden on a roof anywhere. The planting plans were done by my old friend Brita von Schoenaich (www.schoenaich.co.uk), my office (since closed) did everything on the roof from the waterproofing up, including the insulation, and the whole lot was built by the landscape contractor Osbahr GmbH (www.Osbahr.de)

By: Christine

Christine — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 02:11:16 +0000

Thankyou David. Would I be right in describing the general feel as a green oasis in a medium density urban setting?

Gordon I asked the question about the use of the space beneath the garden because I was wondering if the garden/building relationship had been conservatively designed.

If the integrity of some spaces are compromised by problems with a garden there are less consequences if the space is carpark or as in the space you describe a single temporary exhibition use. It also simplifies maintenance when and if things do go wrong.

By: Tom Turner

Tom Turner — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 18:59:15 +0000

Thank you. What a pity. I think an inventor could come up with a solution to the problem!