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	Comments on: Elevated cycling tubes for green commuters	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Turner		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/commuter_cycling_tube_elevated/#comment-1498</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Turner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 06:13:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=3226#comment-1498</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I like Chris Hardwicke&#039;s illustrations and agree that his &#039;freeways&#039; would need to be supplemented by a more local access system. Sun protection would be important in a hot climate - see the above link to the Qatar cycleway. But re the elevated aspect of the roundabouts: I used to commute on a 10-mile route which at one point had an elevated section of roadway with a roundabout underneath. Both were designed for motor vehicles. As a cyclist, I think my choice was about 50:50. If my energy level was OK I went up and over. If feeling lazy, I stayed at ground level. In a fair world, it would be the hydrocarbon-powered travellers who did the up and over trips and the cyclists who were allowed to remain at grade. You are right about the wonderful views from high-level routes but building owners might have security worries and property development worries.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like Chris Hardwicke&#8217;s illustrations and agree that his &#8216;freeways&#8217; would need to be supplemented by a more local access system. Sun protection would be important in a hot climate &#8211; see the above link to the Qatar cycleway. But re the elevated aspect of the roundabouts: I used to commute on a 10-mile route which at one point had an elevated section of roadway with a roundabout underneath. Both were designed for motor vehicles. As a cyclist, I think my choice was about 50:50. If my energy level was OK I went up and over. If feeling lazy, I stayed at ground level. In a fair world, it would be the hydrocarbon-powered travellers who did the up and over trips and the cyclists who were allowed to remain at grade. You are right about the wonderful views from high-level routes but building owners might have security worries and property development worries.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Noel J Hebets		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/commuter_cycling_tube_elevated/#comment-1497</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Noel J Hebets]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 05:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=3226#comment-1497</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hi Tom:  I see that you are an early riser.  I&#039;m not.

No.  The B-Decks is my name for the idea that I had, and I have sent you helpful text in 2 attachments to the email to Daisie, but I have no illustrations, as any graphic skills I have on or off of the computer are worse than my abominable penmanship.

However, this should help:

Been reading about Chris Hardwicke&#039;s Velo-City ideas; looking at his illustrations, and listening to him on a radio talk.

I think my vision is completely compatible to his with this analogy:  His wind-tubes seem to be like the high speed &quot;freeways&quot; of the elevated bike path system, while my open-aired B-Decks would then be the smaller and slower &quot;surface streets&quot; of the same overall system.  The B-Decks then are particularly important for those standard short 3 to 4 mile trips around the &quot;neighborhood&quot;.

Here are a few of the related ideas I am sending you by that email:

I really see the roundabouts as the optimal &quot;intersections&quot; for the various B-Decks.  This lets them all operate at the same elevation, instead of having to live N-S decks, for example, over E-W decks.  And I have a few parallel ideas, like right turn bypasses at the busier roundabouts, circular interfaces with adjacent businesses, and frequent U-Turns that allow a rider to change directions.

I don&#039;t have the cyclists change elevation much, except, perhaps, to rise and slow for the roundabouts, and then drop and leave them more swiftly.

I put &quot;solar slats&quot; (rigidly mounted slats that are angled to allow winter sun, but not summer sun), along the sides of the B-Decks.  Very important for places like the &quot;sun belt&quot;, especially here in Arizona. They also allow good visibility out for the riders, so they don&#039;t feel too claustrophopic.

I use rooftops, (also important in the sunbelt, if not the snow country as well), but cover them with photovoltaic panels for energy collection.  Up that high the trees are not so likely to block the sun.  I even suggest that the structures carry conduit for power lines that transport electrical energy.  These energy uses would have the effect of doubling the function of the B-Decks, and helping to fund them.

I especially focus on trade-offs that the jurisdictions can give to induce the construction and use of B-Decks.  The big limitation in our auto-driven world is the parking space required for a given amount of building space.  So, without costing itself any $$, the jurisdiction can allow the development of commercial air space that only has to provide the associated amount of elevated bicycle parking spaces, and can hook into the B-Deck system, so long as it pays for its share of its cost.  As a real estate attorney, I see this as a major tool.

Yes, it would make a big change in the appearance of the urban landscape, which, in the case of Phoenix (the cow town where I grew up), could be an improvement.  However, allowing the various developments along the way to have the architectural gingerbread, if not even the structural designs, blend with their development could help the overall appearance and the sense of space.

Seems to me we have all gotten used to some pretty ugly overall streetscapes; so part of what might happen is just an adjustment to another one.  On the other hand, the view from up on the B-Decks could be the real hidden reward.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Tom:  I see that you are an early riser.  I&#8217;m not.</p>
<p>No.  The B-Decks is my name for the idea that I had, and I have sent you helpful text in 2 attachments to the email to Daisie, but I have no illustrations, as any graphic skills I have on or off of the computer are worse than my abominable penmanship.</p>
<p>However, this should help:</p>
<p>Been reading about Chris Hardwicke&#8217;s Velo-City ideas; looking at his illustrations, and listening to him on a radio talk.</p>
<p>I think my vision is completely compatible to his with this analogy:  His wind-tubes seem to be like the high speed &#8220;freeways&#8221; of the elevated bike path system, while my open-aired B-Decks would then be the smaller and slower &#8220;surface streets&#8221; of the same overall system.  The B-Decks then are particularly important for those standard short 3 to 4 mile trips around the &#8220;neighborhood&#8221;.</p>
<p>Here are a few of the related ideas I am sending you by that email:</p>
<p>I really see the roundabouts as the optimal &#8220;intersections&#8221; for the various B-Decks.  This lets them all operate at the same elevation, instead of having to live N-S decks, for example, over E-W decks.  And I have a few parallel ideas, like right turn bypasses at the busier roundabouts, circular interfaces with adjacent businesses, and frequent U-Turns that allow a rider to change directions.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have the cyclists change elevation much, except, perhaps, to rise and slow for the roundabouts, and then drop and leave them more swiftly.</p>
<p>I put &#8220;solar slats&#8221; (rigidly mounted slats that are angled to allow winter sun, but not summer sun), along the sides of the B-Decks.  Very important for places like the &#8220;sun belt&#8221;, especially here in Arizona. They also allow good visibility out for the riders, so they don&#8217;t feel too claustrophopic.</p>
<p>I use rooftops, (also important in the sunbelt, if not the snow country as well), but cover them with photovoltaic panels for energy collection.  Up that high the trees are not so likely to block the sun.  I even suggest that the structures carry conduit for power lines that transport electrical energy.  These energy uses would have the effect of doubling the function of the B-Decks, and helping to fund them.</p>
<p>I especially focus on trade-offs that the jurisdictions can give to induce the construction and use of B-Decks.  The big limitation in our auto-driven world is the parking space required for a given amount of building space.  So, without costing itself any $$, the jurisdiction can allow the development of commercial air space that only has to provide the associated amount of elevated bicycle parking spaces, and can hook into the B-Deck system, so long as it pays for its share of its cost.  As a real estate attorney, I see this as a major tool.</p>
<p>Yes, it would make a big change in the appearance of the urban landscape, which, in the case of Phoenix (the cow town where I grew up), could be an improvement.  However, allowing the various developments along the way to have the architectural gingerbread, if not even the structural designs, blend with their development could help the overall appearance and the sense of space.</p>
<p>Seems to me we have all gotten used to some pretty ugly overall streetscapes; so part of what might happen is just an adjustment to another one.  On the other hand, the view from up on the B-Decks could be the real hidden reward.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Turner		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/commuter_cycling_tube_elevated/#comment-1496</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Turner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 05:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=3226#comment-1496</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hi Noel, thank you for your comment. Do you know of a drawing of the B-Decks idea? I like the prospect of free-flow for cyclists but (1) cyclists prefer not to ride uphill - to get to the roundabouts (2) the elevated roundabouts could be intrusive in the urban landscape]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Noel, thank you for your comment. Do you know of a drawing of the B-Decks idea? I like the prospect of free-flow for cyclists but (1) cyclists prefer not to ride uphill &#8211; to get to the roundabouts (2) the elevated roundabouts could be intrusive in the urban landscape</p>
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		<title>
		By: Noel J Hebets		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/commuter_cycling_tube_elevated/#comment-1495</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Noel J Hebets]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 04:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=3226#comment-1495</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Tom:

By way of an email to Daisie Maud today, I sent you some information on what I call &quot;B-Decks&quot;:

&quot;a dedicated, one-way only, non-stop system of urban bicycle-only traffic, that also uses bicycle roundabouts above every ground-level intersection, so that bicyclists can venture everywhere throughout the city without being stopped by traffic signals, pedestrians, motor vehicles, etc., and get where they are going much faster than those pedestrians and motor vehicles because they are not stopped by those traffic signals.&quot;

I am not a bicyclist, and this idea first came to me about 1 1/2 years ago independently without me knowing until today that others had already thought of it.

However, I do believe that I have described some very helpful features to support the idea (if not a punchy name), and hope to get your input, as you seem to be the person with the latest and deepest involvement in the idea.

Thanks.

Noel Hebets]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom:</p>
<p>By way of an email to Daisie Maud today, I sent you some information on what I call &#8220;B-Decks&#8221;:</p>
<p>&#8220;a dedicated, one-way only, non-stop system of urban bicycle-only traffic, that also uses bicycle roundabouts above every ground-level intersection, so that bicyclists can venture everywhere throughout the city without being stopped by traffic signals, pedestrians, motor vehicles, etc., and get where they are going much faster than those pedestrians and motor vehicles because they are not stopped by those traffic signals.&#8221;</p>
<p>I am not a bicyclist, and this idea first came to me about 1 1/2 years ago independently without me knowing until today that others had already thought of it.</p>
<p>However, I do believe that I have described some very helpful features to support the idea (if not a punchy name), and hope to get your input, as you seem to be the person with the latest and deepest involvement in the idea.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>Noel Hebets</p>
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		By: Peak Oil Group Taskforce and the need to plan for greener transport &#8211; urban design with cycletubes? &#124; Garden Design And Landscape Architecture Blog &#8211; Gardenvisit.com		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/commuter_cycling_tube_elevated/#comment-1494</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peak Oil Group Taskforce and the need to plan for greener transport &#8211; urban design with cycletubes? &#124; Garden Design And Landscape Architecture Blog &#8211; Gardenvisit.com]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=3226#comment-1494</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] is calling for greener transport, I thought at once of leafy lanes in country areas joined to panoramic cycletubes in urban areas. No such luck. In the greasy shell of a small nut, what they want is taxpayer [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] is calling for greener transport, I thought at once of leafy lanes in country areas joined to panoramic cycletubes in urban areas. No such luck. In the greasy shell of a small nut, what they want is taxpayer [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Turner		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/commuter_cycling_tube_elevated/#comment-1493</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Turner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 06:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=3226#comment-1493</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There definitely needs to be planned network of cycle routes and, as with the road network, the sections need to be planned for different types of traffic. In London the greatest lack is of long-distance velo-ways. I find cycling in Central London surprisingly easy and convenient but I have given up doing long-distance cycle rides. Partly laziness, no doubt, but also because I think the particulte-choked air might have given me late-onset asthma.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There definitely needs to be planned network of cycle routes and, as with the road network, the sections need to be planned for different types of traffic. In London the greatest lack is of long-distance velo-ways. I find cycling in Central London surprisingly easy and convenient but I have given up doing long-distance cycle rides. Partly laziness, no doubt, but also because I think the particulte-choked air might have given me late-onset asthma.</p>
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		By: christine		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/commuter_cycling_tube_elevated/#comment-1492</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[christine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 05:47:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=3226#comment-1492</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If you consider the purpose of the cycle tube to be;

1) Facilitating the daily peak hour commute of cyclists
2) Providing an efficient network for cycle couriers [ http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/professions-occupations/courrier-my-experience-and-advice/369300/ ]
3) Providing a tourist network for cycle based tourism

It would still seem that rich, complex, dense city with a high level of traffic inaccessibility, a great urban panorama, and a mild climate is the ideal location for a cycle tube network.

I would suggest the parks would be the ideal spill out spaces for the network to give cyclist alternatives between slow and fast, exposed and covered cycle routes.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you consider the purpose of the cycle tube to be;</p>
<p>1) Facilitating the daily peak hour commute of cyclists<br />
2) Providing an efficient network for cycle couriers [ <a href="http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/professions-occupations/courrier-my-experience-and-advice/369300/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/professions-occupations/courrier-my-experience-and-advice/369300/</a> ]<br />
3) Providing a tourist network for cycle based tourism</p>
<p>It would still seem that rich, complex, dense city with a high level of traffic inaccessibility, a great urban panorama, and a mild climate is the ideal location for a cycle tube network.</p>
<p>I would suggest the parks would be the ideal spill out spaces for the network to give cyclist alternatives between slow and fast, exposed and covered cycle routes.</p>
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		By: Tom Turner		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/commuter_cycling_tube_elevated/#comment-1491</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Turner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 08:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=3226#comment-1491</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Interesting use of the term &#039;greenway&#039;. My preferred definition of the term is &#039;a route which is good from an environmental point of view&#039;. I would include glazed public open space in cities and so there is no good reason not to include cycle tubes - but I do not feel 100% comfortable with the inclusion.
It may be that rich cities will not be the first to experiment with cycle tubes, and that they will first be built as a &#039;poor man&#039;s mass transit system&#039;. Or perhaps the Velo-way folk are right and the idea will start on a university campus.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting use of the term &#8216;greenway&#8217;. My preferred definition of the term is &#8216;a route which is good from an environmental point of view&#8217;. I would include glazed public open space in cities and so there is no good reason not to include cycle tubes &#8211; but I do not feel 100% comfortable with the inclusion.<br />
It may be that rich cities will not be the first to experiment with cycle tubes, and that they will first be built as a &#8216;poor man&#8217;s mass transit system&#8217;. Or perhaps the Velo-way folk are right and the idea will start on a university campus.</p>
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		By: Christine		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/commuter_cycling_tube_elevated/#comment-1490</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 06:05:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=3226#comment-1490</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Perhaps the proposed Rochester greenway is of interest? [ http://rochestergreenway.org/ and from the same site http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dd3656vb_11hgcj7shr ]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps the proposed Rochester greenway is of interest? [ <a href="http://rochestergreenway.org/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://rochestergreenway.org/</a> and from the same site <a href="http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dd3656vb_11hgcj7shr" rel="nofollow ugc">http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dd3656vb_11hgcj7shr</a> ]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Turner		</title>
		<link>https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/commuter_cycling_tube_elevated/#comment-1489</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Turner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 06:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=3226#comment-1489</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[My suggestion is for most cyclists to spend most of their time riding on city streets. The cycle tubes are intended only for fast long-distance travel through difficult parts of the city. At present, I do this type of journey by folding my bicycle and putting it on a train. This works very well but it would become a problem if a lot of people wanted to do it, as they surely will. For the tube idea to work it would certainly be necessary to give cyclists a good experience. I think it could be akin to the experience of travel in the London Eye - a serene journey with wide views of the city below.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My suggestion is for most cyclists to spend most of their time riding on city streets. The cycle tubes are intended only for fast long-distance travel through difficult parts of the city. At present, I do this type of journey by folding my bicycle and putting it on a train. This works very well but it would become a problem if a lot of people wanted to do it, as they surely will. For the tube idea to work it would certainly be necessary to give cyclists a good experience. I think it could be akin to the experience of travel in the London Eye &#8211; a serene journey with wide views of the city below.</p>
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