Comments on: Attitudes to life, death and trees in western culture and 'civilization' https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/attitudes-to-life-death-and-trees-in-western-culture-and-civilization/ Gardenvisit.com Thu, 19 Aug 2010 04:34:46 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.5.8 By: christine https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/attitudes-to-life-death-and-trees-in-western-culture-and-civilization/#comment-2359 Thu, 19 Aug 2010 04:34:46 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=4907#comment-2359 You are right peaceful means of protest are always and everywhere preferred.

]]> By: Tom Turner https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/attitudes-to-life-death-and-trees-in-western-culture-and-civilization/#comment-2358 Wed, 18 Aug 2010 07:16:14 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=4907#comment-2358 The ancient Greeks knew the Basques as the goat people – and the goat seems a better choice than the sheep for a conflict with bulls. I sympathise with the Basque desire for independence – but wish they would use Ghandian methods. They could get a lot of international media attention with mass rallies of goats.

]]> By: Christine https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/attitudes-to-life-death-and-trees-in-western-culture-and-civilization/#comment-2357 Wed, 18 Aug 2010 03:21:17 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=4907#comment-2357 Yes, perhaps the historic red bulls of Spain have some relationship with Catal Huyuk. [ http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Catal_H%C3%BCy%C3%BCk,_bull_painting.JPG ]

It is interesting that the unofficial symbol of Spain today is the (black) bull. [ http://www.andalucia.com/culture/osborne-bull.htm ] Yet the Basques in protest have put forward the image of the Basque sheep?

]]> By: Tom Turner https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/attitudes-to-life-death-and-trees-in-western-culture-and-civilization/#comment-2356 Tue, 17 Aug 2010 04:52:39 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=4907#comment-2356 The connection with Cretan bulls is iteresting. Bulls had a religious significance in many ancient cultures (eg Catal Huyuk) so I suppose they became a symbol of paganism/idolatry – and therefore a natural enemy.

]]> By: Christine https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/attitudes-to-life-death-and-trees-in-western-culture-and-civilization/#comment-2355 Tue, 17 Aug 2010 04:20:18 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=4907#comment-2355 It seems in earlier times the evolution of the bullfight represented the victory of the Moors over the Christians. [ http://www.spanish-fiestas.com/bullfighting/history.htm ]

The origin of the bull symbolism in Spain however seems to go back to the 7th of the 12 labours of Hercules. The 7th labour Hercules was asked to perform was to catch the fire breathing bull of Crete. Carlos Feuntes in ‘The buried mirror: reflections on Spain and the New World’ says(p19):

“Hercules bought the mythology of the bull to Spain. Like Thesus, Hercules killed a fire-breathing bull in Crete. But he also travelled to Spain, there to steal the herd of red bulls belonging to the three-bodied giant, Geryon, and drive them back to Greece. Hercules had to cross the narrow strait between Africa and southern Spain to do this; therefore the name of that passage the Pillars of Hercules. Yet the strait is more than a geographic recognition. It symbolises both the bond and the separation inherent in one of humankind’s oldest ceremonies: a ritual slaying of the sacred animal. Hercules proved his nobility by returning some of the cattle to Spain, in recognition of the hospitality he received there. The ruling king Chrysoar, then established the ritual of sacrificing a bull to Hercules every year.”

]]> By: Tom Turner https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/attitudes-to-life-death-and-trees-in-western-culture-and-civilization/#comment-2354 Mon, 16 Aug 2010 05:44:44 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=4907#comment-2354 I wonder if it was a specific type of bull-fighting which arose in the Middle Ages. The Wiki history of bull-fighting seems to agree with my assumption that it has a Roman and pre-Roman origin.

]]> By: Christine https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/attitudes-to-life-death-and-trees-in-western-culture-and-civilization/#comment-2353 Mon, 16 Aug 2010 05:08:01 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=4907#comment-2353 Bull fighting it seems was introduced into Spain during a period of wars between the Moors and Christians:

“The event of bullfighting originated in Spain during the Spanish War of Reconquest from 711 to 1492 A.D. In this war between the Moors and Christians, each side created hunting competitions to rest from battling one another. Basically, the Moors and Christians would go from killing each other to competing with each other. Each side eventually learned that of all the prey they went after, the Iberian bull was the greatest challenge. The bull revealed that it would rather die fighting than run away.”

[ http://www.ehow.com/about_5127110_history-bull-fighting.html ]

I suppose this means there is some connection between actually ‘fighting’ and watching ‘fighting’?

]]> By: Tom Turner https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/attitudes-to-life-death-and-trees-in-western-culture-and-civilization/#comment-2352 Sun, 15 Aug 2010 05:46:27 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=4907#comment-2352 I suppose the Roman love of gory spectacles was a carry-over from the hunter-gatherer era in which the hunting was (1) the main way of obtaining protein, especially in winter(2) the main sport (3) the field of endeavour which most attracted females to males. So spectacles in amphitheatres could be regarded as a way of bringing culture to the masses – the mp3 music of their day. Catalonia realised, earlier this year, that it was time for this type of cultural event to be ended. They have banned bull fighting.

]]> By: Christine https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/attitudes-to-life-death-and-trees-in-western-culture-and-civilization/#comment-2351 Sun, 15 Aug 2010 00:41:01 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=4907#comment-2351 Yes, exactly. There are some very gory stories from the spectacles of the Roman amphitheatre in which the Caledonean bear and cross (on which a criminal is executed) are both present.

So I can suppose that many of the bears of Britain found their way to Rome during the time of Roman Britain.

]]> By: Tom Turner https://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/attitudes-to-life-death-and-trees-in-western-culture-and-civilization/#comment-2350 Fri, 13 Aug 2010 07:35:33 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=4907#comment-2350 Chauvet would be one of the best places to think about relationships between man and bears – if one could gain entry. Partly because of the access problem, I think it may the most wonderous place in Europe.

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