How many qualified Chinese landscape architects are there? – and how many does China need? 中国有多少具有从业资格的风景园林设计师?中国需要多少这样的风景园林师?

Beijing urban landscape: well-built but bad landscape architecture 北京成功建设,但差强人意的中国风景园林.

Beijing urban landscape: well-built but bad landscape architecture 北京成功建设,但差强人意的中国风景园林.

China is urbanizing at a faster rate than any other country has ever done and therefore has a greater need for qualified landscape architects than any country has ever had. At present, a Chinese friend informs me, there is a single qualification for Architecture and Urban planning and graduates are divided into two classes. In 2009 the First Class had 18,639 qualified architects and the Second Class had 16,000 urban planners. There are no officially qualified landscape architects in China but there are qualified companies and institutes in which the members can hold qualifications in architecture, urban planning, landscape architecture, environmental design, horticulture, forestry and other subjects.
My view, based on the experience of other countries, is that China will need a professionally recognized landscape architecture profession. This differs from the professions of architecture, urban planning, horticulture, environmental design etc. The fundamental skill is in the composition of five elements (landform, planting, water, buildings and paving) to create good places. These places, as Ian Thompson argued (in Ecology, Community and Delight: sources of value in landscape architecture) should be ecologically good, visually good and socially good – in combination or in isolation. This is exactly the skill which was used to make the Imperial Parks and Classical Gardens of Ancient China but if students have a limited education they will not be equal to the task. For example (1) architects and urban designers do not know enough about landfom, water and planting (2) horticulturalists and environmental designers do not know enough about aesthetics, or about structures, or about the social use of outdoor space (3) ecologists and geographers do not know enough about landscape art or basic landscape design.
As to the number of landscape architects China needs, or rather needed 25 years ago, one can make a simple estimate based on the number of landscape architects/head of population in Europe: my estimate is 120,000. But one could argue that if China’s middle class has 80m people then it ‘only’ needs the same number of landscape architects as Germany. Comments welcome – I am not Chinese and do not know the country well.

(Image courtesy P.)

Many thanks to Poppy for this translation into Chinese:
中国具备多少具有从业资格的风景园林师? 中国需要多少这样的风景园林师?

中国的城市化进程超越了任何其他国家,因此对风景园林师的需求也是超越任何其他国家的。一位中国朋友告诉我,目前中国有独立对建筑师,城市规划师的两类资格评估。在2009年,具有资格的建筑师18,639名,具有资格的城市规划师16,000名。在中国还没有对风景园林师的官方认证,而只有在公司和机构中的成员能够取得建筑师,城市规划师,风景园林师,环境设计师,园艺师,其他专业的资质评审。

基于对其他国家的了解,我认为中国需要一个对风景园林从业人员的专业认证。这个认证将有别于建筑设计,城市规划,园艺,环境设计等等。风景园林设计的技能是基于对主要五种要素的组织(地形,种植,水,建筑,道路铺装)以创造出优美的场所。这样的场所,按照伊恩•汤普森所言(风景园林的价值来源于:生态学,社会学和给人带来愉悦),应该是有良好的生态性,良好的美学性和良好的社会性–共同具备或单一具备这样的特点。这是创造中国皇家园林和古典园林的精湛技艺,但是如果学生对此所受教育不够就不能胜任其职。 比如说:(1)建筑师和城市规划师对地形,水体和种植知之甚少。(2)园艺师,环境设计师的美学知识不够,也没有构造学,和户外空间的知识。(3)生态学家和地理学家基本不了解园林艺术和基本的设计常识。

关于中国需要风景园林师的数量,或者说25年前中国需要风景园林师的数量,我们可以估计一下,遵循一个简单的在欧洲的原则: 风景园林师的数量/人口数量。那么我的估计是中国需要120,000名风景园林师。然而,有人也会说如果中国的中产阶级有80,000,000人,那么所需风景园林师的数量就和德国一样。欢迎大家踊跃讨论,因为我不是中国人,对中国了解不没有中国人深刻。

44 thoughts on “How many qualified Chinese landscape architects are there? – and how many does China need? 中国有多少具有从业资格的风景园林设计师?中国需要多少这样的风景园林师?

  1. Lili

    During last 10 years, the landscape architecture industry could growth so fast possibility have to thanks the hottest estate industry in China. Developers’ gain huge benefits from ‘well-designed’ landscape, and it is so welcomed by citizens, same as my parents they are so love to see the trees and grassland in front of buildings, luckily if more flowers, life is wonderful (we normally don’t see these elements in living area)
    Developers treat the ‘Landscape Architecture’ as beautiful clothing to their ‘products’ (buildings) for selling fast, & getting money fast. As I knew the situations from last few years, the large projects in China were design by foreigner Landscape Architects, they are from the UK and US mostly. For some smaller projects (compare with large one, they were small, but not exactly smaller area) were designed by Chinese architects and gardeners.
    In my previous university in China, my tutors were painters and architects, they are teaching compositions, colours, and engineering constructions, hard materials courses etc., I had no sense of landform, soils, plants specials, microclimate/macroclimate, sustainability, etc., before came to the UK studying this course. I think the Chinese higher education system just got no time to prepare for starting this course as it was growing so fast than expects, as well as universities might lack of knowledge from professional landscape architects. However, the situation is much changed in recent years, as you know there are lots of Chinese tutors and students are studying landscape architecture in the UK, we are starting to learn more about landscape architecture design. Hopefully could have litter contributions in the future in China.
    Back to the question How many qualified Chinese landscape architects are there? – and how many does China need? We don’t have one landscape architect in China as China Landscape Architect institution has not finally founded. How many dose China need, 1 million or 2 million, is not enough at all! We have nearly 14 billion populations in the country, which 43 pre cent populations are living in 700 cities and 1635 towns. Current Landscape architects ( including foreign designers and locally) in China are available in Bei Jing, Shang Hai, Guang Dong, Shen Zhen, Hong Kong those cities only.
    Above point of views just expressed litter personal thoughts, if any information I presented is not properly please make comments.

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  2. Mei

    I felt a bit surprised when I looking at this article because I didn’t realise there are so much opportunities for landscape architects in China.

    It is true that qualification for Architecture and Urban planning are much popular than that for landscape architecture in China.Many graduates have to get working experiences and spend quite a long time to pass the qualification exams,then became qualified designer. But Qualification for landscape architecture is still a new area and it doesn’t have a developed system for professionally recognized profession.

    There are a number of landscape architects who got the educational qualification in America or UK first and back to China to put the theories into real projects. I think that is one of reason why some of the landscape projects in China are so similarly like ones in the west-countries.

    Be honest, there is not too much development on the traditional chinese garden style which was great in the historical period. We just protect the famous classical gardens and keep the style instead of improving or developing. Theories about Achitecture, urban planning, landscape architecture from west-countries are so popular in China now and you will find so many chinese cities have similar appearances. This is a bit shame and boring to look at these similar cities,especially in the south-east of the China. We are used to talk about landscape architecture should be sustainable and ecological,but we didn’t acheive these aims in real projects. Projects usually are visually good instead of ecologically good and socially good.

    I am not sure about the number of landscape architects China needs.But it’s still a good thing to know we could play a role in the development on the environment in China as landscape architects.

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  3. Jingyi

    As a Chinese, I am 100% agree with the view — “China is urbanizing at a faster rate than any other country has ever done and therefore has a greater need for qualified landscape architects than any country has ever had.”

    I think just base on the demand of the housing, the residential areas design needs lots lots lots… of Landscape Architects in China. Most of the residential areas in some big cities in China are design as a miniature of a city. (I think this kind of residential areas is different from those in UK. I am sorry about my poor English. I should have found a more precise word for it.) In this kind of residential areas, they have the own green spaces, water features (ponds, lakes, streams, water-fall…), good facilities and also well-organized transportations. Some are even have their own hotels for the guests who visiting the residents in this area and own guards. Housing for people in China is the most important in their lives. They expect more and more for their living environments, then better Landscape Architects are needed.

    In my opinion, as China is urbanizing at a so fast rate, Architects, Urban Designer or Environment Designers… could no longer take place of Landscape Architects to finish the tasks. This might cause a lot of problems or make the case even worse, which is because the 5 elements of landscape are not being well-organized. At the same time I think most of Landscape Architects in China are still more focus on soft materials than hard materials, which should have been changed.

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  4. Tom Turner Post author

    Thank you very much for your comments. The ancient (Vitruvian) aims of the design process, in east and west alike, are ‘commodity, firmness and delight’. To me, the above photograph shows a place which has firmness (it is well-built, though it seems to lack ecological ‘firmness’) but it lacks commodity (ie the greenspace has little functional or social use) and it lacks delight (ie artistic quality). It is not an ugly place, at all, but it has no appeal to the soul, to the imagination or the ethical and aesthetic sensibilities of the present generation. It looks, in fact, very much as though it is a built example of Le Corbusier’s dream and only someone who knows modern China would ever guess that it is in China. A previous blog post asked Wither Chinese landscape and garden design in the twenty-first century? and used a typical residential development as an example. The reason for places like this being so popular, I think, is that they give residents contact with ‘landscapes’ – and they make money for developers. They also create socially useful space but, to me, there is something profoundly wrong about the place. But if a client demands ‘I want a Spanish-style appartment complex, by next Tuesday’, what should the poor designer do? Cry? Laugh? Obey? Resign? Emigrate? Fart?
    There are many examples in the history of garden design and landscape architecture where the stimulus for change, and improvement, has come from abroad and my impression is that the work of non-Chinese landscape architects in China is beneficial. For example, the parks in Shanghai by US and UK firms seems better than comparable projects by Chinese designers. In part, the reason for this is likely to be that having paid high fees for foreign expertise, the clients are likely to take their advice. With local consultants, they are more likely to tell them what to do. Chinese designers with a good reputation, like Professor Kongjian Yu of Turenscape, can enjoy the same independence. I like what I have seen of his work but am not convinced that it goes to the ‘heart of the problem’: what forms should modern landscape architecture in China aspire to? Most countries have similar problems but they are more acute in China because so much is being done, so quickly, which will be difficult to change when the concrete has set and the trees have grown.
    Another approach is to change the educational system for landscape architecture in China. I am certain that skills in painting, architectural construction and amenity horticulture are an insufficent basis for a landscape architecture profession. IDEAS AND BELIEFS LIE AT THE HEART OF LANDSCAPE AND GARDEN DESIGN: ideas about space, ideas about art, ideas about social use, ideas about construction, ideas about history, beliefs about man, nature and society. There is no point in knowing HOW to create a designed landscape without knowledge of WHAT types of landscape should be created. As the old proverb has it: “a little knowledge is a dangerous thing”

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  5. Christine

    Poor Corbusier! Please remember the 5 points of architecture:

    1) There are NO a pilotis elevating the mass off the ground.
    2) The building probably DOES use the free plan – achieving the separation of the load bearing structure from the walls subdividing the space.
    3) The building’s upper storey probably DOES have a free facade – the corollary of the free plan in the vertical plan.
    4) The building DOES NOT have the long horizontal sliding window.
    5) The building DOES NOT seem to have THE ROOF GARDEN, RESTORING, SUPPOSEDLY THE GROUND AREA COVERED BY THE [BUILDING].

    Corbusier at best would rate the architecture 2 out of 5!

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  6. Damian

    China has several schools and programs(Bachelor, Masters, PhD) in Landscape Architecture including Tongji, Beijing Forestry, Peking University, Fudan, Suzhou School of Architecture & Urban Environment and numerous other schools with programs that are 4-5 years. Landscape architecture is a boom industry in China with numerous schools setting up programs. From what I heard at IFLA this year, Asia has approx. 400 programs more than UK, USA, Australia, Canada combined.

    Many students do not wish to study landscape architecture in China for two reasons – one it is a new field and often doesn’t get the recognition it deserves(sounds like other countries) and two there are not many jobs at the end of the program – this is what I hear from undergrads and high school students. Sad to hear but the profession needs more of boost in status – also it not just lack of graduates but I know many chinese LA’s have left the industry to go into property development or other design industries due to money and status. China does need landscape architects but more local landscape architects.

    As I understand it there are qualified landscape architects in China and there is 4 levels of qualification and are registered with State Forestry Administration. I know someone who sat the test back in August I will ask what they went for.

    China professional institution – CHSLA was established in 1948 and is a member of IFLA.

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  7. Tom Turner Post author

    Damian, thank you very much for the information. But it does raise the question of how many of the 400 programmes are qualifying students at a comparable academic character and professional level to schools in the rest of the world. I am obviously not questioning the talents of the Chinese: I am thinking about the (regrettable) truth that professional standards need to have the degree of consistency, which normally comes from regulation by a professional body or by a government body, and which is recognized internationally by various means. Naming a programme ‘landscape architecture’ is not enough to make it a high quality landscape architecture programme.
    With regard to workload I always think about the comparison between medical doctors and landscape architects. I come from a family of doctors and always envy the strong demand for medical services. With landscape architecture it is different. We look after ‘the health of the landscape’ and there should be a vast demand for us to do it. But the public do not see it this way. They often think we are a cosmetic luxury. So landscape architecture professions have to make great efforts to PROMOTE their professional services. This can be done by individuals (blogs, books, letters, etc) but it seems to work best when there is a strong and outspoken professional body which is willing bang the gong, shout from the treetops and lobby the wretched politicians. Does the CHSLA do well at this? It should. But it cannot learn how to do it better from the UK Landscape Institute!
    To an outsider, a State Forestry Institution sounds altogether the wrong type of body to be regulating a landscape architecture profession. Landscape architects do most of their work in cities. Foresters do most of the work outside cities. It sounds like getting a Clothing Institute to regulate the medical profession. Apart from the fact that the Russians used to connect landscape architecture with forestry, is there any reason whatsoever for having the arrangement?

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  8. Poppy

    Sometime, the topic about Chinese landscape architecture will make me think more.
    Go on the topic of Qualification, I think not only the landscape persons need to be quapified,but the landscape translation ( western books). Most of them are not done very well. For example” Landscape architecture-A Manual of Land Planning and Design (By Simonds),the Chinese translator is an ecologist and the translation really need to be re-think. Another interesting one is Tom’s old book. I have the Chinese edition,but sometimes I am very confused by it. They even can not translate the title: municipal square.Did the translator be qualified,please?

    Education is always a very serious topic. Hopefuly, CHSLA (Chinese Society of Landscape Architects 中国风景园林学会) can have wise strategies in the future.We all look forward to seeing it.

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  9. Tom Turner Post author

    Thank you for telling me about the translation of my landscape planning book, both about its existence and about the poor quality of the translation. I should have been more careful when signing my contract with the publishers and my publishers should have been more careful when signing their contract with an overseas publisher. We live and we learn.

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  10. Damian

    @poppy I realise there are more schools in landscape architecture in China including many forestry, agricultural and normal universities. I think many of these schools are in Classical form of education which teaches other subjects such as physics, etc. so they are probably teaching those subjects in every program at their university as a basis for all programs. It will take time for these programs to evolve like it took time for the programs at western universities took time to evolve. Similarly some programs may not evolve like many programs in western universities where they learn a full range of subjects which come from agricultural and forestry universities but are accepted as landscape architecture courses.

    @tom (DamiAn) There are many programs across Asia and IFLA is looking into the quality of the programs from what I heard from James Taylor’s presentation at IFLA World Congress in Suzhou this year. I think that many landscape programs are probably not up to quality but at least there are courses, western universities cannot produce enough landscape architects for their own countries let alone booming Asia so at least they are starting somewhere. Also many modern landscape architecture industries in USA, Australia, UK where started in the 1940-60’s by architects, urban planners, horticulturists etc but are now practising or own firms – most landscape architecture firms where often not started by landscape architects but allied professions and the same could be said of China, Vietnam and India’s new landscape architecture industries.

    Promotion of landscape architecture in China is getting better with 4-5 known journals, blogs and large number of new graduates communicating through BBS, blogs, etc.

    As for books being translated often books are translated by unauthorised publishers so depends on who they choose – thus you may not have the control you wish especially if the book is a popular seller.

    I think we need to remain positive about landscape architecture in China as pointing out the problems and negatives does little to assist in the promotion and advancing the profession. The industry is new and will take time to graduate new landscape architects, maybe the solution is to train more architects, planners, engineers in landscape architecture studies so when they do have to design landscape at least they have the tools to design.

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  11. Lawrence

    This may be a typical cross-section or not, but here are the staff qualifications of the Landscape Architecture office that I run on the east coast of China:

    Diploma LA 2 (One of these is me)
    PostGrad MA 1
    BSc Architecture 1
    Phillipines Institute of Architects 1
    BA Agriculture 2
    BA Landscape Design 3
    BA Horticulture 1
    BA Sculpture 1
    BA Landscape Engineering Technology 1
    Garden Major 3

    Most of the staff are aged under 30. Despite the disparity of the educational background there is a homogenous approach to design and it is clear to me that the Chinese schools have no modernist tradition. “Form follows function” is an alien concept in much of the planning one sees, leading to the kind of curious planting that illustrates this thread, apparently an arboretum transplanted into a traffic junction. The initial reaction of all of my designers here is to impose a preconceived pattern onto the site and to make it work. My approach of coupling the functional requirements of the site with its unique characteristics to see what emerges is quite literally foreign and we are having an interesting time adapting to each other. An interesting aspect of our work load is that much of it is currently master planning, very often on the macro scale. I believe that those landscape architects who are working in China all share this experience.

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  12. Damian

    @ lawrence the cross section is about the same as the firms I have worked in/run. In my experience modernist theory is only taught at a few schools and those graduates are in high demand often going to high paying firms or those with a renowned ‘design’ aesthetic. I share your experiences in relation to master planning which is often more about pattern making rather than look at existing site conditions, etc and designing to suit. Topography is often ignored and this goes back to urban planning where when possible flatten every piece of land to create more land for development = $$.

    I must say that the graduates and landscape architects are getting better in the time I have been working in China, this is due to some going overseas for 1 or 2 years but also as many have access to design books.websites and theory. I am hoping that book publishers will move away from ‘coffee table’ style landscape architecture publication and more towards producing books that show the process of design from which then people can learn.

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  13. Christine

    Tom re critiquing the vision of Corbusier it is best to be clear whether we are talking about 1) his vision for architecture or 2) his vision for the city.

    Philosophically Le Corbusier saw the city as “the interaction of man with the natural environment at a large scale.”

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  14. Tom Turner Post author

    I am pleased that discussions of modernism, education and Corbusier are taking place in the same thread, because the topics are inter-connected and problematic. Christine, you are right that my refs to Corbusier in this thread relate to his vision of the city (which I view as rather ‘Swiss’ in the sense of having places to live with views of ‘high mountains’, ‘forests’ and ‘flat grassland’). I admire his vision of the city for its architecture-and-landscape integration – but it is not without drawbacks!
    Re modernism in China, I think it is a necessary development, as Lawrence says, but I also think the approach has to go beyond modernism. The best word we have for this is postmodernism, which is why I used it in the title of a book on City as landscape: a post-postmodern view of design and planning.
    Re landscape architectural education in China, the key step is to establish an a national body (with no connection to forestry!) to oversee standards. It could be a professional body or it could be government body. But it needs to exist and I do not think it should be exclusive. Damian is right both that ‘western universities cannot produce enough landscape architects for their own countries’ and also that ‘architects, urban planners, horticulturists’ came together to form the twentieth century landscape architecture professions in many countries. My own view is that the coming together of professions is and should continue to be a strenth for the landscape profession. It is good to have school leavers going into landscape courses. But it is also VERY GOOD to have post-graduate programmes which ‘convert’ graduates in many subjects into professisonally qualified landscape architects. This can produce a landscape profession which also has good skill levels in ecology, architecture, urbanism, history, anthropology, history, environmental psychology etc. Architects, for example, have made an enormous contribution to historic ‘landscape architecture’ projects and we should encourage them to continue doing this – as well as encouraging them to work closely with landscape architects on major building projects. DESIGN IS DESIGN and it should not be cut up into professionalised closed shop sectors. THERE IS ONLY ONE WORLD.

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  15. Christine

    I agree design is design. However, it is not always easy to get agreement on whether design has actually occurred on a project and the standard of that design, ie whether it is atrocious, indifferent, remarkable or incredible just to list a few possible adjectives.

    Of those four words which one do you believe best describes the Beijing urban landscape and why?

    Perhaps benchmarking something at the lower end (ie atrocious) and something at the higher end (ie incredible) might assist in giving a feel for the range of possibilities?

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  16. Tom Turner Post author

    Odd: (1) modernism rules in contemporary Chinese Architecture (2) architects are heavily involved in teaching landscape architecture in China (3) Chinese landscape architects are not taught a modernish approach.
    What is the explanation?
    I think ‘indifferent’ is the best word for modern Beijing’s urban landscape. It is visually and socially dull but the buildings are OK, the paving drains and does not wobble, the walls stand up, the trees grow, the grass is cut the beds are kept free of weeds.

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  17. Christine

    Can you think of an ‘atrocious’ urban landscape in China? Perhaps something which is visually and socially degraded with failed buildings, broken paving, crumbling or tilting walls, no trees and weeds?

    How would you describe the urban landscapes of Professor Kongjian Yu? Is his work closer to ‘remarkable’ or ‘incredible’?

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  18. Tom Turner Post author

    I have not looked for examples of ‘atrocious’ urban landscapes in China but suspect they could be found. Do you think the example of suburban landscape design outside Shanghai would qualify?
    Kongjian Yu is the most interesting Chinese landscape architect I know of and I have it in mind to do another blog post about his work. My impressions are that he does not get enough sleep, that he is spreading himself too thinly and that quantity is detrimental to quality.

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  19. Poppy

    Oh, “My impressions are that he does not get enough sleep, that he is spreading himself too thinly and that quantity is detrimental to quality.”(!) 🙂

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  20. Mei

    For landscape education in China, I had some personal experience.If chinese student want to study MA landscape architecture course in China (for example,Tongji University,shanghai), they have to attend post-gratuate exams which including four courses: Politics,English,Landscape history and landscape theory at first.
    There are about 400 students attending these exams each year but Tongji University will matriculate 40-45 students at first contest according to each student’s mark. And all of these 40-45 students have to attend an ‘5 professors to 1 student’ interview and a design test(6hours) before they get a final chance to study MA course in the Tongji University. That design test is a bit trick. Each student will get a brief and a site plan in the morning and they need to finish all plans in the 6 hours in the studio. Plans including site analysis,concept ideas, master plan,a detail plan,planting plan,sections,perspective sketches….Students will know the results after one day.
    Acturally, University professors just spend 3-4 hours to have a quick look on all the students’ design and 15 stdents will lost their final chance because the prefessors don’t like their design. This means these students who spend one- year time on preparing the exams have to do the same things again next year if they are still want to study MA course. one year,one chance.

    So it is not a easy thing to have a chance to study MA landscape Archintecture in China even you have one Bachelor degree already. Because of the massive population and the fierce competition in china,it takes time to develop each aera.

    However, there are many Chinese students who choose to study abroad and back to China and there are many international landscape architects come to china….All of these are good signs to demonstrate that we still have opportunities to change the image of landscape architure education in China,maybe next 10 years, 20years…..

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  21. Tom Turner Post author

    Yes, thank you Mei. It reminds me of what I have read about the Imperial Examination system in old China 科举. China invented the exam system as a means of admission to the government service. In nineteenth century England, for example, government jobs used to go to people with enough money or influence to ‘buy’ the job for a son (never for a daughter!). The Chinese system was far better – but it used to be become over-complicated and it sounds as though this is continuing, for landscape architecture. Also, I think there needs to be a check that they are examining the right abilities and in the right way.

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  22. Zoe

    It is so fascinating to know how other people look at landscape architecture in China. How many qualified Chinese landscape architects are there? In order to answer this question, I would like to ask first of all what kind of qualification makes some one a qualified landscape architect?
    Comparing all the comments above, I personally quite agree with “ Chinese landscape architects qualification much begin from the education- the university”.
    But I also believe the work experience is a fundamental condition to consider some one as a qualified landscape architect. According to the job which a qualified landscape architect is supposed to provide, it absolutely not clear that if you graduate within Landscape Architecture profession then you are a qualified Landscape Architect.
    There is no officially Landscape Institute in China like in the UK, so it is hard to distinguish who is qualified, and who is not. Nevertheless the job quality can obviously be recognized by most professionals and clients. So far I would like to say, if a Chinese landscape architect is capable to do the job exactly like any other country landscape architect does, then he is a qualified landscape architect. However, China certainly should have their own Landscape Institute, it doesn’t make sense that such a big and powerful country doesn’t have any systematic organization of landscape architecture. But we could also easily understand that the Chinese system is quite different from that in western countries because of their respective history. We should not use the same point of view and criteria to look at the current Chinese situation of landscape architecture organizations.
    According to the history of landscape architecture, we know that the first person to write of “making” a landscape was Joseph Addison in 1712. The term “landscape architecture” was invented by Gilbert Laing Meason in 1828 and was first used as a professional title by Frederick Law Olmsted in 1863. During the latter nineteenth century, the term “landscape architect” was used by professional people who designed landscapes. This use of “landscape architect” became established after Frederick Law Olmsted and Beatrix Farrand with others founded the American Society of Landscape Architects (ASLA) in 1899, and with the 1949 founding of the International Federation of Landscape Architects (IFLA). In 1949 China just ended in the Chinese Civil War, and established the People’s Republic of China (PRC). We can not simply compare nearly 200 years development of landscape architecture in the Western world with Chinese landscape architecture in the Eastern world, and we want to know how many qualified landscape architects does China need. I would like to ask how many qualified landscape architects do the countries like UK or USA already have building on 200 years of history? Then it might become clear know how many qualified landscape architects does China need now.

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  23. Tom Turner Post author

    Thank you for your comment. There are many bad (and good) things about professional institutes and I would be delighted if China could find a way of managing the professions which the rest of the world could learn from. But I also think that if you are going to have a ‘something’ then it needs to be defined and specified. Many people who are not qualified in landscape architecture have done good landscape architecture projects and I would not want to exclude anyone. But if I were a client and I wanted to employ a professional person then I would look for a dentist with a ‘proper’ qualification in dentistry and and landscape architect with a ‘proper’ qualification in dentistry. My thought about China is that because so many development projects are being carried out, and so quickly, it needs a much higher ratio of landscape architects per head of population than a developed western country. But I fear the ratio is much lower.
    There is also the practical point that if Chinese landscape consultants wish to bid for overseas contracts, as the Americans and Europeans do, then they will have to have internationally recognized professional qualifications in landscape architecture.

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  24. Poppy

    Re Tom ,what was the question you asked above?

    Did you want to know that the landscape architecuts in west China also use internet?

    If so, the answer is: Yes. Internet is very popular in China, now. Although most people have not been used to use Email as their communication tool, internet is popular enough in China.

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  25. Tom Turner Post author

    I find China very interesting and am rather sorry that, despite such a great opening up in recent years, it remains a country which does not join in international debates in the way that other large (and small) countries do. I know of course that there are a great many internet users in China but I am not aware of many Chinese intellectuals joining the general debate. I am sure it will happen in due course – but I am impatient.

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  26. Tom Turner Post author

    I think landscape architects need to ‘band together’ and ‘take on’ governments – with arguments and designs. Otherwise, our ideas will never be implemented.

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  27. Tom Turner Post author

    Robert Holden has kindly given me the following figures for numbers of landscape architects per head of population in Europe: “The figure to use is that of registered landscape architects in Germany (6,100) with a total polulation of 82,110,097 which gives a figure of 1 landscape architect :13 460 so for China with a population of 1.324.655.000 divided by 13 460 = 98,414 landscape architects. Alternatively my own guestimate of the number of landscape architects in Europe is 25,000 therefore on that basis given a European population of 834million (including Russia and Turkey) is 1 landscape architect per 33,360. Using that ratio for China i.e 1.324.655.000 divided by 33,360 =39 707 landscape architects. Incidentally by my reckoning there are 145 landscape architecture schools in Europe (again including Russia and Turkey).”

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  28. Robert Holden

    To comment on the above:
    1) there is a Chinese Society of Landscape Architecture (CSLA) website http://www.chsla.org.cn/ which is part of the Chinese Association of Science and Technology and CSLA is a member of IFLA
    2) I am not clear why Tom objects to a link with forestry, given China is one of the few countries in the world to increase afforestation, it seems an admirable connection for landscape architecture
    3) Regarding state recognition of the profession, there is state registers for landscape architecture in only a minority of European countries (Germany, The Netherlands, Italy, Austria, Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovakia). Such protection of title (licensing is far more common in the USA where there a licensure systems in the majority of US states.

    Robert Holden

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  29. Poppy

    @Robert Holden
    Thank you for joining this debates about Chinese LA and thank you very much for giving the imformation of numbers.You have given good points, but there is something you missed in the whole disscusion.

    (1)CSLA is the Chinese LA organisation, as we all knew that, but the focus of the topic was on how it should work better and how it will work better (ie,if they think more about the structure of education and about landscape architects’ qualifications).

    (2)I do not think Tom “objects” to a link with forestry…His meaning is to give a CLEAR idea about what is the real job of the landscape architecture profession in China.This job is totaly different from forestry. Forestry was by Chinese people earlier than landscape architecture. That is why Tom wants to think of landscape architecure independently from other subjects. I think it is necessary and good. Because the meaning of landscape architecutre has been misunderstood for ages in China, even now there is not a fixed meaning.

    Anyway, thank and welcome all comments, which is all care about LA.

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  30. Tom Turner Post author

    ‘Forestry’ appeals to me more in the old sense of multi-objective countryside management than in the modern sense of single-objective ‘tree farming’ and I like the idea of landscape architects having an engagement with the countryside. But the main employment of landscape architects since the inception of the profession has been with cities. Towns need trees, but tree planting is not the main thing which landscape architects should be doing to improve the design of cities. Our role is to arrange the ‘five compositional elements’ in order to satisfy the Vitruvian objectives. This is a design job for a design profession and it requires design education. There is also, as Poppy says, a need for consistency so that people who use the title ‘landscape architect’ have identifiable and recognizable skills. The consistency can come from a professisonal institute, from state regulations or from the educational system. But if ‘landscape architect’ does not mean something then it will end up meaning nothing. One other point: landscape architects require a knowledge of Science and Technology but their work is closer to architecture, in the Vitruvian sense, and to the Humanities, in a renaissance sense, than it is to science in the modern sense. The reason for this is that the truths of science must be free from subjectivity – which cannot be the case for landscape design.

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  31. Poppy

    Yes,you are right! Shake your hands!”But if ‘landscape architect’ does not mean something then it will end up meaning nothing”—-This is what I want to say! 哈哈。

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  32. tintin

    I am probably a bit late to post but found this whilst I was researching.

    I work for a Chinese LA company, but again, nobody here is qualified in LA. I am the only one, because I am the only foreigner.
    I have had numerous discussions about this major problem, and everytime it comes back to what has been mentioned above, there isn’t a governing body for LA, you have to select one of the other choices. And then to become fully qualified it becomes near on ridiculous, because it isn’t even the LA qualification that you are seeking in the first place. So many of the Chiense do not even bother with becoming fully qualified in any respects often just going back to their hometowns because what they first dreamed just never happened, completely down to the lack of an institution in what they are dreaming of as a career. I have been in the company only 5 months and the constant changes in personal has now meant I am now the 9th longest member of the team.
    It is a shame for both them and the country I feel.

    Another problem is that of the obligation the developers have of building the buildings before handing the reigns over to a landscape designer, who then has to “make it pretty”. Nearly every project I have dealt with has came with tower blocks put in silly places that we cannot even suggest to move slightly because the architects overule without any consideration to beyond the buildings themselves. Simply because it has not been discussed with a landscape architect prior to the green lights going on for construction.
    I could go on for ages now actually, but I have work to do so will stop, somebody has to to think about exterior spaces eh.

    p.s – I fully agree with Toms last note, but I fear in China it currently means not much more than putting ribbons on the toys that somebody else has already made. Not the correct role of LA, but more of a constant chase to try and cover up the past and current mistakes of the chinese development industry. Just this week I finished a conceptual design for a green space adjacent to a residential area. A few days before submission I was informed there was now to be a lighthouse smack bang in the middle of it. This destroyed the project, the design, the conception and ultimately left a flawed final product for both me, my company, the developers themselves, and most importantly the Chinese residents who have to use these spaces.

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  33. Tom Turner Post author

    I think the landscape profession in China should be arguing for a change in the way it is set up and organized. The normal way of doing this in a country would be through its professional organization. The problem with doing this in China may be that the CHSLA is part of a government ministry. Its members surely care about landscape architecture but, as a part of a government department, it is probably difficult for them to ‘rock the boat’ and campaign for change. My suggestion to China’s landscape profession is to set up a Chinese Garden and Landscape Visiting Society. Members could organise several visits a year and, while they are enjoying the scenery, members could discuss matters of common interest to the profession. Gardenvisit.com would be pleased to help publicise the events and they might attract some foreigners who could bring useful information about how things should be organised in their own countries. I write ‘should’ because I do not know of a country in which the profession is 100% happy with the way things are organized.

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  34. Jerry

    Thank you very much for your sincere comments. Indeed, Chinese contemporary landscape architecture profession is absolutely disgraced! I have worked in a small company which was ran by a professor of a very famouse university in China. Even like this, the staffs there are not qualified. The staffs are all have BA above degree in landscape architecture and urban design. They are all brilliant professionals, but when they design on real projects, they have to listen to the “low-taste” people from government or the rich people who has no beauty appreciation! We have to design for them in order to make the company alive. Although it is a high-standard office in China, we have to listen to client. In my memory,we never had a client who is good enough and want to put their monney on the right place!

    Moreover, CHSLA is a very weak organization in China. Lots of people, but they have to listen to one leader who might be very very and very old. In China, they trust old people much more than young people. It is a shame and it is the main reason that Chinese LA put too much money and enegy on Chinese garden history study! It is very right to study history, but for a fast developing country, the real projects are waiting for qualified Landscape architects, not the history researchers. I have met the most powerful, old and have the leader of CHSLA and prepared to ask him some questions, but I was forced to stop doing it, because people think if my questions are just the ones he can not answer, he will feel embarrassing and therefore he will be angry. So, in China, even most of the LA teacher are not the ones you can disscuss with, but they are more like to be the BOSS! Students always have the same idea and always have to share their tutor’s interest very hard!

    I came across a news today, which is about the golden metal winner from Greenwich University,the winner said: She said: “Without my training, and the support of my tutors, I could never have achieved so much. In fact, it was my tutor Tom who recognised my independent spirit when I was in my final year…. I learnt to question all assumptions and think outside the box, something my tutors always encouraged.”

    I think that Chinese LA tutors really and really should learn how to teach this profession in China and learn from the tutors from Greenwich University! Education is the most important thing, because it is about people’s mind and spirit. Although I do not think Chinese LA tutors can change in a short time, I still look forward to seeing the change before I die!

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  35. Jerry

    PS: Universities education quality is very very low in China in Landscape architecture profeesion. Please take an easy and short imagine of this, all the future designers, LA govemetal staffs, LA company bossed… are almost all need to study in universities before they go to work. Therefore, universities are very significant place to promote Landscape profession. If they are taught to think independently, always have their own ideas and learn following the qualified requirment, I beleive Landscape proffesion will have a bright future in China.

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  36. Tom Turner Post author

    Jerry, thank you for your comments. I think the problem of bad clients is worldwide and that it is a consequence of the way society is now organized. The people who commission landscape architecture projects, and who control the budgets, are not the people who will use the places. This is a very bad thing and it is also the cause of much bad architecture. In order to get a good design you need a client who knows and cares about the place which is being made. I think this is why private villas, gardens and palaces were often good. Companies work best when their is a fusion of ‘ownership and control’. Design projects also need this. But how to make it happen is a very very very big problem.

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