Comments for Garden Design And Landscape Architecture Blog - Gardenvisit.com http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog News and debate from Gardenvisit.com Sun, 08 Nov 2009 02:05:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 Comment on Upland Britain with a blanket cover of wind turbines by Tom Turner http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2009/10/19/upland-britain-with-a-blanket-cover-of-wind-turbines/comment-page-1/#comment-2697 Tom Turner Sat, 07 Nov 2009 18:43:55 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=2901#comment-2697 Lots of interesting points regarding roofs, thank you. It is a pity more people did not discover the secret of long-life bitumen felt roofs: the bitumen must be protected with a thin layer of soil. It keeps the bitumen cool and moist, thus preventing melts and cracks, and it can grow sedums or grass with a mat to prevent root damage. Re the Sydney Opera House: it is brilliantly designed in relation to the landscape - in the very best classical tradition of making a response to the Genius of the Place. Lots of interesting points regarding roofs, thank you.
It is a pity more people did not discover the secret of long-life bitumen felt roofs: the bitumen must be protected with a thin layer of soil. It keeps the bitumen cool and moist, thus preventing melts and cracks, and it can grow sedums or grass with a mat to prevent root damage.
Re the Sydney Opera House: it is brilliantly designed in relation to the landscape - in the very best classical tradition of making a response to the Genius of the Place.

]]> Comment on When is a tree not a tree? by Tom Turner http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2009/11/07/when-is-a-tree-not-a-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-2696 Tom Turner Sat, 07 Nov 2009 18:36:02 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=3071#comment-2696 Maybe the answer to your question is 'when it's a Christo'. It is amazing what a long and successful career Christo has made out of wrapping. Maybe the answer to your question is ‘when it’s a Christo’.
It is amazing what a long and successful career Christo has made out of wrapping.

]]> Comment on Upland Britain with a blanket cover of wind turbines by Christine http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2009/10/19/upland-britain-with-a-blanket-cover-of-wind-turbines/comment-page-1/#comment-2692 Christine Sat, 07 Nov 2009 06:04:06 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=2901#comment-2692 I totally agree the world needs brilliant architects and landscape architects to collaborate. Tom it would be a fanatastic project for landscape students to redesign the Willis Building green roof. Perhaps you could invite Norman Foster to the crits...the process might just spark his enthusiasm for landscape architecture (in other than rectangular pools, paving and plants)...then imagine! In defence of architects (and the size of their heads) and their lack of landscape savy. There is alot to think about. And we do need a little help from our friends! Roofs were not historically about green space. A little about firmness...(which is not really separable from commodity and delight)... Roofs are not inherently the architect's favourite part of the design - they are notoriously difficult to get right. During the Renaissance the technique for designing domes was to try something and if it didn't collapse then it was a success! [ http://www.skyarts.co.uk/art-design/article/renaissance-secrets-the-riddle-of-the-dome ] Brunelleschi's 600-year-old dome on the Florence Cathedral still causes awe and wonder. With the introduction of flat roofs in the Modern Movement architects tended not to answer their phones either when it rained or when it was very hot (the roofs which were made of bituminous material had a habit of slipping off!) It is said that Villa Savoye's roof commenced leaking almost immediately after the Savoye family moved in so Le Corbusier only narrowly avoided a lawsuit when the family fled France due to the German Army invading! So getting to today's green roof took some doing. Utzon's roof for the Opera House in Sydney was controversial too. Many believed it was impossible to construct. But I suppose they weren't as familiar with the Aha moment and good engineers like Arups; "The shells were originally designed as a series of parabolas, however engineers Ove Arup and partners had not been able to find an acceptable solution to constructing them. In mid 1961 Utzon handed the engineers his solution to the problem, the shells all being created as ribs from a sphere of the same radius. This not only satisfied the engineers, and cut down the project time drastically from what it could have been (it also allowed the roof tiles to be prefabricated in sheets on the ground, instead of being stuck on individually in mid-air), but also created the wonderful shapes so instantly recognisable today." [ http://www.sydneyarchitecture.com/ROC/QUA01.htm ] There is very little garden at the Opera House but it is still a fantastic building in a fantastic setting! Perhaps landscape architects could have contributed to the urban design of the podium and promenade spaces? I totally agree the world needs brilliant architects and landscape architects to collaborate.

Tom it would be a fanatastic project for landscape students to redesign the Willis Building green roof. Perhaps you could invite Norman Foster to the crits…the process might just spark his enthusiasm for landscape architecture (in other than rectangular pools, paving and plants)…then imagine!

In defence of architects (and the size of their heads) and their lack of landscape savy. There is alot to think about. And we do need a little help from our friends! Roofs were not historically about green space.

A little about firmness…(which is not really separable from commodity and delight)…

Roofs are not inherently the architect’s favourite part of the design - they are notoriously difficult to get right.

During the Renaissance the technique for designing domes was to try something and if it didn’t collapse then it was a success! [ http://www.skyarts.co.uk/art-design/article/renaissance-secrets-the-riddle-of-the-dome ] Brunelleschi’s 600-year-old dome on the Florence Cathedral still causes awe and wonder.

With the introduction of flat roofs in the Modern Movement architects tended not to answer their phones either when it rained or when it was very hot (the roofs which were made of bituminous material had a habit of slipping off!)

It is said that Villa Savoye’s roof commenced leaking almost immediately after the Savoye family moved in so Le Corbusier only narrowly avoided a lawsuit when the family fled France due to the German Army invading!

So getting to today’s green roof took some doing.

Utzon’s roof for the Opera House in Sydney was controversial too. Many believed it was impossible to construct. But I suppose they weren’t as familiar with the Aha moment and good engineers like Arups;

“The shells were originally designed as a series of parabolas, however engineers Ove Arup and partners had not been able to find an acceptable solution to constructing them. In mid 1961 Utzon handed the engineers his solution to the problem, the shells all being created as ribs from a sphere of the same radius. This not only satisfied the engineers, and cut down the project time drastically from what it could have been (it also allowed the roof tiles to be prefabricated in sheets on the ground, instead of being stuck on individually in mid-air), but also created the wonderful shapes so instantly recognisable today.”
[ http://www.sydneyarchitecture.com/ROC/QUA01.htm ]

There is very little garden at the Opera House but it is still a fantastic building in a fantastic setting! Perhaps landscape architects could have contributed to the urban design of the podium and promenade spaces?

]]> Comment on First entries for Tiananmen Square Landscape Architecture Competition by stranger http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2009/10/09/first-entries-for-tiananmen-square-landscape-architecture-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-2686 stranger Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:50:22 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=2815#comment-2686 Do you mean a visitor can determine the style of the owner's home ? Do you mean a visitor can determine the style of the owner’s home ?

]]> Comment on First entries for Tiananmen Square Landscape Architecture Competition by Tom Turner http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2009/10/09/first-entries-for-tiananmen-square-landscape-architecture-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-2684 Tom Turner Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:12:12 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=2815#comment-2684 Hello stranger: do you mean that a lack of money has determined the present form of Tiananmen Square? Hello stranger: do you mean that a lack of money has determined the present form of Tiananmen Square?

]]> Comment on First entries for Tiananmen Square Landscape Architecture Competition by stranger http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2009/10/09/first-entries-for-tiananmen-square-landscape-architecture-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-2682 stranger Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:39:47 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=2815#comment-2682 One day, a visitor comes to your home and say: “your sitting room is useless and I would like to design for you because you have no money to do that.” What will you say… Welcome? One day, a visitor comes to your home and say: “your sitting room is useless and I would like to design for you because you have no money to do that.” What will you say… Welcome?

]]> Comment on Upland Britain with a blanket cover of wind turbines by DAN http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2009/10/19/upland-britain-with-a-blanket-cover-of-wind-turbines/comment-page-1/#comment-2680 DAN Fri, 06 Nov 2009 08:36:24 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=2901#comment-2680 interesting video indeed and now a couple of years old... His points about human scale and human friendly design are lost on me slightly and his own examples of 'public space' around the gerkin are not something to be celebrated I think. That space is cold and empty and feels like a square around a circle... awkward spaces in fact. An afterthought / convieniance... His collaborative work with engineers is certainly impressive but it is his human scale I do not totally understand... though his head is certainly bigger than mine... interesting video indeed and now a couple of years old…
His points about human scale and human friendly design are lost on me slightly and his own examples of ‘public space’ around the gerkin are not something to be celebrated I think. That space is cold and empty and feels like a square around a circle… awkward spaces in fact. An afterthought / convieniance…
His collaborative work with engineers is certainly impressive but it is his human scale I do not totally understand… though his head is certainly bigger than mine…

]]> Comment on Upland Britain with a blanket cover of wind turbines by Tom Turner http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2009/10/19/upland-britain-with-a-blanket-cover-of-wind-turbines/comment-page-1/#comment-2678 Tom Turner Fri, 06 Nov 2009 07:20:37 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=2901#comment-2678 I don't read as much architectural criticism as I would like to: but my impression is that style is the main topic and technology comes second, with very little attention given to how well the building fits the needs of the users. Vitruvius called this utilitas and Commodity is not a good translation. With regard to the Vitruvian trilogy, I am unsure whether sustainability is an aspect of Firmness or of Commodity. Ian Thompson wrote a book on <i>Ecology, Community and Delight </i> which sees Ecology (including sustainability) as the landscape equivalent of Firmness. But when I think of all the effort in maintaining a 'perfect lawn', I am more inclined to see it as an aspect of Commodity. It could be both. I enjoyed the Foster video. He speaks very well but says surprisingly little. (1) I don't think the Romans would be at all surprised at the character of the modern world and, should we survive, I doubt if things will be so different in another 2000 years (2) the ideas of living modestly and economically are as old as monasticism - and a good deal older than the Romans (3) I spent a few minutes in a Buckminster Fuller type dome recently: it was badly ventilated, too hot and full of glare. (4) Norman Foster is right about the high energy consumption of US cities vis-a-vis European cities (5) I admire his roofs eg his 1973 project http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willis_Building_%28Ipswich%29 (6) despite sometimes working with good landscape architects (eg Robert Townsend) I think Fosters, as a firm, has no grasp of the design of outdoor space (eg the wasted space around the Swiss Re building) (7)though I don't know enough about it, I am attracted to the Aqaba to Dead See canal idea What the world needs is more collaboration between brilliant architects and brilliant landscape architects. A major obstacle to this collaboration is that too many architects are educated to believe they need to collaborate with engineers without learning that the same level of fundamental collaboration is also necessary with landscape architects. I have the impression that when Fosters work with landscape architects they say: "here is a patch of space - please put in some paving some plants and perhaps a pool, if you can make it rectangular". This is not the kind of brief they would want for the architecture. I don’t read as much architectural criticism as I would like to: but my impression is that style is the main topic and technology comes second, with very little attention given to how well the building fits the needs of the users. Vitruvius called this utilitas and Commodity is not a good translation.
With regard to the Vitruvian trilogy, I am unsure whether sustainability is an aspect of Firmness or of Commodity. Ian Thompson wrote a book on Ecology, Community and Delight which sees Ecology (including sustainability) as the landscape equivalent of Firmness. But when I think of all the effort in maintaining a ‘perfect lawn’, I am more inclined to see it as an aspect of Commodity. It could be both.
I enjoyed the Foster video. He speaks very well but says surprisingly little. (1) I don’t think the Romans would be at all surprised at the character of the modern world and, should we survive, I doubt if things will be so different in another 2000 years (2) the ideas of living modestly and economically are as old as monasticism - and a good deal older than the Romans (3) I spent a few minutes in a Buckminster Fuller type dome recently: it was badly ventilated, too hot and full of glare. (4) Norman Foster is right about the high energy consumption of US cities vis-a-vis European cities (5) I admire his roofs eg his 1973 project http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willis_Building_%28Ipswich%29 (6) despite sometimes working with good landscape architects (eg Robert Townsend) I think Fosters, as a firm, has no grasp of the design of outdoor space (eg the wasted space around the Swiss Re building) (7)though I don’t know enough about it, I am attracted to the Aqaba to Dead See canal idea

What the world needs is more collaboration between brilliant architects and brilliant landscape architects. A major obstacle to this collaboration is that too many architects are educated to believe they need to collaborate with engineers without learning that the same level of fundamental collaboration is also necessary with landscape architects. I have the impression that when Fosters work with landscape architects they say: “here is a patch of space - please put in some paving some plants and perhaps a pool, if you can make it rectangular”. This is not the kind of brief they would want for the architecture.

]]> Comment on Pythian Games and Olympic Games: culture and athletics by Tom Turner http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2009/11/02/pythian-games-and-olympic-games-culture-and-athletics/comment-page-1/#comment-2676 Tom Turner Fri, 06 Nov 2009 06:36:18 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=3060#comment-2676 I like the classification of the uses of good grace and note that 'grace' is a mental attribute rather than a physical attribute. The idea of 'games', as opposed to 'sport', also seems to embody this distinction. Murakami (see note above) runs marathons to 'compete' with himself rather than the other athletes and says his chosen epitaph would be HE NEVER WALKED. This was the first book of his I read but I am now reading the others and will be very sorry when I have finished them. From my selfish point of view he spends too much time running and not enough writing! I like the classification of the uses of good grace and note that ‘grace’ is a mental attribute rather than a physical attribute. The idea of ‘games’, as opposed to ’sport’, also seems to embody this distinction. Murakami (see note above) runs marathons to ‘compete’ with himself rather than the other athletes and says his chosen epitaph would be HE NEVER WALKED. This was the first book of his I read but I am now reading the others and will be very sorry when I have finished them. From my selfish point of view he spends too much time running and not enough writing!

]]> Comment on Upland Britain with a blanket cover of wind turbines by Christine http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2009/10/19/upland-britain-with-a-blanket-cover-of-wind-turbines/comment-page-1/#comment-2673 Christine Fri, 06 Nov 2009 03:27:10 +0000 http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=2901#comment-2673 Thankyou. Hattie Hartman believes "When architecture is discussed on a more profound level, sustainability rarely figures." I don't think this is true. Rather technology figures highly, but design is sidelined... Sustainability is a very 'now' topic. But sustainability =/ (does not equal) architecture/landscape or design. I still think this fundamental distinction is being missed. Norman Foster [ http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/architects/ ] takes the long and wide view of sustainability and begins his discussion with Buckminister Fuller. [ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNgkEGs1l4A&feature=player_embedded ] It is good to hear him talk as he has considerable technological and design credibility without being defined by 'green-ness'. I think this is helpful and could help advance the design and collaborative understandings of sustainability significantly. It is great also to see a healthy plethora of competitions about imagining the city! Although of course sustainability does not end with the city, but rather with human settlement. Thankyou. Hattie Hartman believes “When architecture is discussed on a more profound level, sustainability rarely figures.” I don’t think this is true. Rather technology figures highly, but design is sidelined…

Sustainability is a very ‘now’ topic. But sustainability =/ (does not equal) architecture/landscape or design. I still think this fundamental distinction is being missed.

Norman Foster [ http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/architects/ ] takes the long and wide view of sustainability and begins his discussion with Buckminister Fuller.
[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNgkEGs1l4A&feature=player_embedded ] It is good to hear him talk as he has considerable technological and design credibility without being defined by ‘green-ness’. I think this is helpful and could help advance the design and collaborative understandings of sustainability significantly.

It is great also to see a healthy plethora of competitions about imagining the city! Although of course sustainability does not end with the city, but rather with human settlement.

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