Comments on: Landscape architecture for the Hai River Revitalization in Tianjin, China, 振兴天津海河

By: Tom Turner

Tom Turner — Fri, 03 Dec 2010 07:10:07 +0000

Could it be that ‘monasticism is monasticism’ wherever it is found? It is an austere approach to uncovering the deep mysteries of death, life and the great American cities.

By: Christine

Christine — Fri, 03 Dec 2010 03:56:10 +0000

Mmm. Maybe a Cisterian monastic tradition would have some of these spiritual qualities. However the aesthetic seems to be more ‘hauntingly austere’ than mysterious.
[ http://imagecache6.allposters.com/LRG/22/2241/YFHZD00Z.jpg ] Senanque in Provence. Perhaps for Yuan the Cisterian monastery may be more mysterious?

The way of the Cisterian however is to seek ‘God’ and ‘eternal’ life. Consider:

“They frequently emphasized that discovering the truth about the self is always part of the path to encountering the truth about God. Cistercian spirituality thus follows the Benedictine Rule by insisting on humility, but complements this by defining the Cistercian community as a “school of charity” (schola caritatis), a lifestyle in which one must learn to grow simultaneously in the love of God, of neighbor, and of the true self.”

By: Tom Turner

Tom Turner — Thu, 02 Dec 2010 10:46:08 +0000

The Taoist monastic tradition, I believe, derived almost entirely from Buddhism – though there had been Daoist hermits since ancient times.
Re the spirituality of European gardens, it rather depends what one includes within the meaning of ‘garden’. I include monastic cloisters and see them as intensely spiritual places, despire their domestic role in the life of a monastery. I look forward to comments from Yuan re what she sees in Augustan gardens.

By: Christine

Christine — Thu, 02 Dec 2010 02:57:15 +0000

This may well be so. But what I was meaning to ask was not what was intended to be expressed by the ‘Augustan’ gardens…rather the qualities they convey to ‘other’ eyes. That is why I suggested this would be a perception you would disagree with but Tian Yuan might not.

This is the same for the Monastic gardens of Taoist China to a European sensibility. Consider:

“According to Taoism, in order to have the “happiness” and “long life”, one must follow the Tao, or the law of nature and must harmonize his own rhythm to the pulse of the nature, to the changing of the seasons, to the flow of the things. Taoism, which summoned people back to nature from mundane interests, has greatly influenced the layout of Chinese gardens. Contrasting with formal axial and symmetrical system of classical Chinese architecture, the Chinese garden expresses the formless, indefinable, asymmetry with a curvilinear layout derived from the nature.”

I am not sure I can think of m(any)European gardens concerned with the spiritual rather than the material qualities of ‘happiness’ and ‘longlife’?

By: Tom Turner

Tom Turner — Tue, 30 Nov 2010 07:06:48 +0000

I have never been 100% happy with the term ‘Augustan’ in this context and may ditch it when I have the opportunity. One of the problems is the association with Augustus. As your word ‘majesty’ reminds me, he was a king and an emperor and the spirit of England’s ‘Augustan’ gardens was not magisterial.
Re the Imperial gardens of ancient China, I think it is fair to say that the Emperors who made them saw themselves as the link between heaven, nature and culture, so that the gardens (or rather the imperial parks) were symbols of this linkage.

By: Christine

Christine — Tue, 30 Nov 2010 06:11:12 +0000

Thankyou both. Sometimes I think the differences are almost more important than the similarities…

My understanding of ‘genius of place’ is quite ephermeral. It is almost like a deep intuition about the uniqueness of a particular location (not particularly related to either people or nature but it could be.)

Tian Yuan I think that a spirit meaning of the chinese garden as combining people and nature is a lovely one. Perhaps if a similar expression might be found it might be combining nature and culture. But perhaps that would not adequately express all that is meant by the Chinese saying.

Tom the Augustan landscapes have the quality of ‘majesty’. [And in Poland they take on a vibrancy which is nowhere present in England.] However the Chinese ones have the quality of ‘mystery’. [And in translation something of the lightness and ethereal qualities disappear.]

Maybe it is easier for Tom to see mystery in Chinese landscapes and Yuan to see majesty in Augustan ones?

By: Tian Yuan

Tian Yuan — Tue, 30 Nov 2010 00:02:56 +0000

Thank you for this interesting question. It does have a guess in China that English Landscape landscape has been influenced by Chinese garden in 18th century, but the evidence from Chinese academic level is unsure. Although there is a book named:China,Mother of Gardens.(Ernest Henry Wilson,1929), it may not very important to find the " final answer": whether English garden has been influced by Chinese Garden, or Chinese garden has been influnced by English garden. Because blending of culture ,art and history is good for global progress. Re Chinese garden characteristics: I think I can also use Tom's theory about six elements of Garden design to describe our Chinese garden design. Moreover, Chinese garden has a spirit meaning: Combining people and nature. I think it is little similar as " genius of the place.'

By: Tom Turner

Tom Turner — Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:10:03 +0000

It's a great idea to set questions for Yuan and for me! But le jardin anglo-chinois (the Anglo-Chinese Garden) is a French idea which has never been popular in England. It arose from the theory that English eighteenth century gardens were inspired by Chinese models. The English might very well have drawn inspiration from China if they could have - but no visual information about Chinese gardens was available in Europe at the time. At Wilanów there is definitely something of the Classical (Augustan) Landscape about the composition of small temples with woods, water and landform - and my belief is that this derives, ultimately, from a shared Chinese and English heritage in Central Asia. I would also say that there is something Chinese about some of the structures at Wilanów.

By: Christine

Christine — Mon, 29 Nov 2010 02:22:01 +0000

The English-Chinese garden at the Museum Palace at Wilanow in Poland is an interesting essay in cultural interpretation. [ http://www.wilanow-palac.art.pl/index.php?id=377&menuid=167 ]

Tom can you identify the particularly English characteristics of the garden? Tian Yuan can you identify the particularly Chinese characteristics of the garden?

By: Tian Yuan

Tian Yuan — Sun, 28 Nov 2010 23:33:41 +0000

The sculpture development was one part of Hai River Revitalization from 2005. So, it made after the masterplan of Hai River Revitalization.