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	<title>Comments on: Kenilworth Castle Elizabethan Garden Restoration</title>
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	<link>http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2009/05/10/kenilworth-castle-elizabethan-garden-restoration/</link>
	<description>News and debate from Gardenvisit.com</description>
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		<title>By: not Mrs Thurley</title>
		<link>http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2009/05/10/kenilworth-castle-elizabethan-garden-restoration/comment-page-1/#comment-11382</link>
		<dc:creator>not Mrs Thurley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 21:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=1501#comment-11382</guid>
		<description>Am I entirely wrong in thinking that the garden restoration was lead by one former Mrs Simon Thurley?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am I entirely wrong in thinking that the garden restoration was lead by one former Mrs Simon Thurley?</p>
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		<title>By: Light Up Your Ride</title>
		<link>http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2009/05/10/kenilworth-castle-elizabethan-garden-restoration/comment-page-1/#comment-9521</link>
		<dc:creator>Light Up Your Ride</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 07:40:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=1501#comment-9521</guid>
		<description>I am also doubtful about the ‘historical accuracy’. Everything which survives from the sixteenth century was beautiful – buildings, paintings, tapestries etc. The title causes me some concern: Elizabeth I was not a garden maker and I would rather they had followed Roy Strong in regarding the character of the gardens of the period in a renaissance context.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am also doubtful about the ‘historical accuracy’. Everything which survives from the sixteenth century was beautiful – buildings, paintings, tapestries etc. The title causes me some concern: Elizabeth I was not a garden maker and I would rather they had followed Roy Strong in regarding the character of the gardens of the period in a renaissance context.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Turner</title>
		<link>http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2009/05/10/kenilworth-castle-elizabethan-garden-restoration/comment-page-1/#comment-9464</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jun 2011 17:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=1501#comment-9464</guid>
		<description>Mynhardt, thank you for your comment. But, in this case at least, I see no reason why we should have to choose between &#039;attractiveness to visitors&#039; and &#039;historical accuracy&#039;.  My impression that everything which survives from the Tudor court is beautiful and fascinating. So the re-created Kenilworth knot garden should have these qualities. I am not however an expert on the period and it may be that a book to be published next year will persuade me that they have done the right thing:  The &lt;em&gt;Elizabethan Garden at Kenilworth &lt;/em&gt;by Anna Keay and John Watkins. The title causes me some concern: Elizabeth I was not a garden maker and I would rather they had followed Roy Strong in regarding the character of the gardens of the period in a renaissance context.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mynhardt, thank you for your comment. But, in this case at least, I see no reason why we should have to choose between &#8216;attractiveness to visitors&#8217; and &#8216;historical accuracy&#8217;.  My impression that everything which survives from the Tudor court is beautiful and fascinating. So the re-created Kenilworth knot garden should have these qualities. I am not however an expert on the period and it may be that a book to be published next year will persuade me that they have done the right thing:  The <em>Elizabethan Garden at Kenilworth </em>by Anna Keay and John Watkins. The title causes me some concern: Elizabeth I was not a garden maker and I would rather they had followed Roy Strong in regarding the character of the gardens of the period in a renaissance context.</p>
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		<title>By: Mynhardt Potgieter</title>
		<link>http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2009/05/10/kenilworth-castle-elizabethan-garden-restoration/comment-page-1/#comment-9462</link>
		<dc:creator>Mynhardt Potgieter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jun 2011 12:33:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=1501#comment-9462</guid>
		<description>I am wondering wether it would be wise to add my penny&#039;s worth so to speak...

I bow the knee to such extensive knowledge as is evident in all the above comments...but here we go anyway. 


Say I was approached to &quot;re-design&quot; a historical garden, say it is from the Elizabethan Era and say it is very much in the public eye and visited by people from all over the world?

Where would one begin? Would you please the critics or would you draw a line between practicality, design and function? After all, most people who visit these historical houses and their gardens are out to be &quot;visually entertained&quot; for lack of a better term. I spoke to someone who visited such a property only yesterday and they described the garden as being &quot;...overgrown and rather untidy...&quot;
If you run the property as a business, which you must in the current economical climate, there is much to be said about keeping costs down and making sure it &quot;looks pretty&quot; in order to secure good visitor numbers and the resulting profits for the Trust.

It is a very fine line indeed and I take my hat off to anyone who tries their hand at it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am wondering wether it would be wise to add my penny&#8217;s worth so to speak&#8230;</p>
<p>I bow the knee to such extensive knowledge as is evident in all the above comments&#8230;but here we go anyway. </p>
<p>Say I was approached to &#8220;re-design&#8221; a historical garden, say it is from the Elizabethan Era and say it is very much in the public eye and visited by people from all over the world?</p>
<p>Where would one begin? Would you please the critics or would you draw a line between practicality, design and function? After all, most people who visit these historical houses and their gardens are out to be &#8220;visually entertained&#8221; for lack of a better term. I spoke to someone who visited such a property only yesterday and they described the garden as being &#8220;&#8230;overgrown and rather untidy&#8230;&#8221;<br />
If you run the property as a business, which you must in the current economical climate, there is much to be said about keeping costs down and making sure it &#8220;looks pretty&#8221; in order to secure good visitor numbers and the resulting profits for the Trust.</p>
<p>It is a very fine line indeed and I take my hat off to anyone who tries their hand at it.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Turner</title>
		<link>http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2009/05/10/kenilworth-castle-elizabethan-garden-restoration/comment-page-1/#comment-8727</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Mar 2011 19:29:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=1501#comment-8727</guid>
		<description>All good points. But are you arguing that the training of experts in Historic Garden Conservation is so similar to that of training experts in Garden Design that you have to be a designer first? - and then you have to learn about history and consevation techniques. It is worth thinking about the situation for buildings: do you have to be an architect in order to care for historic buildings?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All good points. But are you arguing that the training of experts in Historic Garden Conservation is so similar to that of training experts in Garden Design that you have to be a designer first? &#8211; and then you have to learn about history and consevation techniques. It is worth thinking about the situation for buildings: do you have to be an architect in order to care for historic buildings?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2009/05/10/kenilworth-castle-elizabethan-garden-restoration/comment-page-1/#comment-8726</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:13:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=1501#comment-8726</guid>
		<description>A garden is a place of civilization, but to work on gardens you need to have:
- soil under your finger nails, like a gardener
- an understanding of the the seasons, like a farmer
- an understanding of trees, like a forester
- a familiarity with the world of ideas to make gardens
- a painter&#039;s eye
- technical information about archaeology, history and science
If you only have one type of knowledge then you cannot make good gardens. Feelings about the beauty of nature only develop when you work with the nature, they cannot develop from books. The proportions of the water feature at Kenilworth look as though they were based on book knowledge from the 19th century, only.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A garden is a place of civilization, but to work on gardens you need to have:<br />
- soil under your finger nails, like a gardener<br />
- an understanding of the the seasons, like a farmer<br />
- an understanding of trees, like a forester<br />
- a familiarity with the world of ideas to make gardens<br />
- a painter&#8217;s eye<br />
- technical information about archaeology, history and science<br />
If you only have one type of knowledge then you cannot make good gardens. Feelings about the beauty of nature only develop when you work with the nature, they cannot develop from books. The proportions of the water feature at Kenilworth look as though they were based on book knowledge from the 19th century, only.</p>
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		<title>By: Garden archaeology and archaeologists &#124; Garden Design And Landscape Architecture Blog – Gardenvisit.com</title>
		<link>http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2009/05/10/kenilworth-castle-elizabethan-garden-restoration/comment-page-1/#comment-3946</link>
		<dc:creator>Garden archaeology and archaeologists &#124; Garden Design And Landscape Architecture Blog – Gardenvisit.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 07:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=1501#comment-3946</guid>
		<description>[...] best garden archaeologists, like those who &#8216;restored&#8217; Kenilworth Castle Garden, seem to be dry academics devoid of design sense or design judgment. Normal, bad, garden [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] best garden archaeologists, like those who &#8216;restored&#8217; Kenilworth Castle Garden, seem to be dry academics devoid of design sense or design judgment. Normal, bad, garden [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Turner</title>
		<link>http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2009/05/10/kenilworth-castle-elizabethan-garden-restoration/comment-page-1/#comment-2652</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 10:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=1501#comment-2652</guid>
		<description>Thank you for all this information. It is curious that local authorities should be stricter than English Heritage re &#039;conjectural restoration&#039;. Maybe you have to be in the position of setting rules before you feel confident about breaking them.
Re Kenilworth, I also think the mown grass outside the fences are a significant weakness: surely the land cannot have been managed like this. It seems far more likely that the paths ran beside the fences.
As noted before, historical judgment is not enough for a restoration project. There must also be a powerful injection of design judgment. This lesson should have been learned from Hampton Court.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for all this information. It is curious that local authorities should be stricter than English Heritage re &#8216;conjectural restoration&#8217;. Maybe you have to be in the position of setting rules before you feel confident about breaking them.<br />
Re Kenilworth, I also think the mown grass outside the fences are a significant weakness: surely the land cannot have been managed like this. It seems far more likely that the paths ran beside the fences.<br />
As noted before, historical judgment is not enough for a restoration project. There must also be a powerful injection of design judgment. This lesson should have been learned from Hampton Court.</p>
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		<title>By: Marian</title>
		<link>http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2009/05/10/kenilworth-castle-elizabethan-garden-restoration/comment-page-1/#comment-2644</link>
		<dc:creator>Marian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 10:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=1501#comment-2644</guid>
		<description>An excellent talk by Dr Anna Keay - the Properties Presentation Director at English Heritage - on the Restoration of the Elizabethan Garden at Kenilworth yesterday at the Garden Museum.  It was part of a Symposium exploring Sources of Evidence in Garden History,  focusing on the written word.  

As you point out the main piece of evidence was the letter from Mercer Robert Laneham describing the Queen&#039;s visit in 1575.  Some of the written description, such as the quality of the gravel, was much more helpful than a painting or plan would have been, but in terms of proportion a plan would have been more helpful.  As a mercer Laneham/Langham was very interested in measuring everything, and his detailed measurements were used in the recreation. I am tempted to wonder whether some of his measurements were to impress his fellow mercer correspondent Humphry Martin, leading to possibly oversized obelisks and a super-aviary. His spelling and use of words was sometimes ambiguous, with the fountain being potentially topped by a ball or a bowl (his word - &#039;boll&#039;. He says the obelisks were porphery, but EH used wood as the archaeological finds did not show enough physical support for porphery. More conjecture was used in the arbours, for which design a Du Cerceau engraving and a contemporary French garden arbour were used. The little fences seem the weakest part of the design, being both total conjecture and rather small.  They should hopefully disappear when the hedges grow up through them, which  will soften the whole look. Dr Keay&#039;s presented approach was rigorous and wholely dedicated, and she and John Watkins&#039; team deserved to create a wonderful garden.  The addition to the pot of more design-led conjecture may have created something less stark.  

It is often frustrating that Local Authority Conservation Policy prevents any &#039;conjectural restoration&#039; in listed gardens/building facades, and  I hope that this use of both historical fact and educated guesswork by English Heritage itself will open the way to a more imaginative (ie creating an image or picture from several references) approach at the local level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An excellent talk by Dr Anna Keay &#8211; the Properties Presentation Director at English Heritage &#8211; on the Restoration of the Elizabethan Garden at Kenilworth yesterday at the Garden Museum.  It was part of a Symposium exploring Sources of Evidence in Garden History,  focusing on the written word.  </p>
<p>As you point out the main piece of evidence was the letter from Mercer Robert Laneham describing the Queen&#8217;s visit in 1575.  Some of the written description, such as the quality of the gravel, was much more helpful than a painting or plan would have been, but in terms of proportion a plan would have been more helpful.  As a mercer Laneham/Langham was very interested in measuring everything, and his detailed measurements were used in the recreation. I am tempted to wonder whether some of his measurements were to impress his fellow mercer correspondent Humphry Martin, leading to possibly oversized obelisks and a super-aviary. His spelling and use of words was sometimes ambiguous, with the fountain being potentially topped by a ball or a bowl (his word &#8211; &#8216;boll&#8217;. He says the obelisks were porphery, but EH used wood as the archaeological finds did not show enough physical support for porphery. More conjecture was used in the arbours, for which design a Du Cerceau engraving and a contemporary French garden arbour were used. The little fences seem the weakest part of the design, being both total conjecture and rather small.  They should hopefully disappear when the hedges grow up through them, which  will soften the whole look. Dr Keay&#8217;s presented approach was rigorous and wholely dedicated, and she and John Watkins&#8217; team deserved to create a wonderful garden.  The addition to the pot of more design-led conjecture may have created something less stark.  </p>
<p>It is often frustrating that Local Authority Conservation Policy prevents any &#8216;conjectural restoration&#8217; in listed gardens/building facades, and  I hope that this use of both historical fact and educated guesswork by English Heritage itself will open the way to a more imaginative (ie creating an image or picture from several references) approach at the local level.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Purkess</title>
		<link>http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/2009/05/10/kenilworth-castle-elizabethan-garden-restoration/comment-page-1/#comment-1852</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Purkess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:16:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gardenvisit.com/blog/?p=1501#comment-1852</guid>
		<description>Tuesday 21 July 2009. Visited with friends - pouring with rain - but a thoroughly enjoyable experience for us all. Don&#039;t pretend to know a lot about it but to me the whole design evoked a feeling of Elizabethan England. Found the obelisks and fencing to be nicely in proportion while the central fountain was quite beautiful. The guide to plants in each &#039;knot&#039; was fascinating and most helpful. Hope to return over the years to watch the garden mature.
Mike</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tuesday 21 July 2009. Visited with friends &#8211; pouring with rain &#8211; but a thoroughly enjoyable experience for us all. Don&#8217;t pretend to know a lot about it but to me the whole design evoked a feeling of Elizabethan England. Found the obelisks and fencing to be nicely in proportion while the central fountain was quite beautiful. The guide to plants in each &#8216;knot&#8217; was fascinating and most helpful. Hope to return over the years to watch the garden mature.<br />
Mike</p>
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